#2: The First Step To Effective Habit Change with Kathleen Klug

In this episode, I am thrilled to be joined by Kathleen Klug, a seasoned health and wellness expert from California. Kathleen's focus on integrative wellness, which harmonizes body, mind, and spirit, highlights the importance of self-compassion and the impact of our thoughts and beliefs on our well-being. She underlines the transformative potential of small, achievable actions and building trust with ourselves through keeping commitments.

Throughout our interview, we delve into the challenges of our tech-driven lives and sedentary habits, encouraging us to set personal boundaries and incorporate movement into our daily routines. We also touch on the significance of preparing food with love and gratitude, infusing it with positive energy that nourishes not just our bodies but our souls.

In this journey of self-discovery, Kathleen suggests asking the question, "What do I want?" persistently, sharing her own experience of finding her desires during a solo vacation in her twenties. She also explains the neuroscience behind behaviour change including its role in filtering information based on our beliefs, and the law of vibration which relates our emotions and energy to attracting similar frequencies into our lives.

Kathleen's message resonates with the idea that sustainable change begins with small, achievable steps and a mindset of kindness and grace. By honouring our word, being mindful of our thoughts, and taking intentional actions, we can reclaim our health and happiness. As we navigate the complexities of modern life, prioritizing self-care and crafting an environment that supports our well-being is paramount. The future is filled with possibilities for transformation; it all starts with one simple step.

About Kathleen Klug

Kathleen Klug is a Fitness, Health & Wellness Professional for more than 40 years and is passionate about teaching and encouraging people to be their very best and most powerful selves. As an Institute of Integrated Nutrition Holistic Health Coach, a Fitness Professional, a Health Educator, and the author of START With ONE: A Simple Approach to Upgrade your Health: Body, Mind, & Spirit, Kathleen hopes to inspire, inform, motivate, and walk alongside you on your journey to revitalizing your health and wellness!

Kathleen’s approach is a holistic and integrated approach where we look at all areas of your life as a way to improve your wellbeing; her coaching and guidance teaches you how to make lifestyle changes and new habits that you can stick to for better health and quality of life.

Connect with Kathleen

Website: https://kathleenklug.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kathleenklughealth

Start with One: https://kathleenklugbook.com/

LINKS

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/its.allwellness_podcast/

Website: https://jemainefinlay.com/

Your Joyful Host - Jemaine Finlay

Women's health naturopath, personal trainer, NLP & behaviour specialist, Heartmath coach, podcaster, speaker, sun-seaker, and world’s most curious human when it comes to consciousness & human behaviour. A bit of a mixed bag! But hey, at least you'll never be bored!

Connect with Jemaine
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/its.allwellness_podcast/
Website: https://jemainefinlay.com/

Transcript

JEMAINE:
Don't you just love it when you find your tribe? Joining me today from across the globe in California is Kathleen Klug, a 40-year veteran in the health and wellness field who currently works as a health educator in a medical practice as well as a private health coach. She holds a degree in addiction studies and has completed her training as an integrated nutrition health coach at the Institute of Integrated Nutrition. She has also written her first book called Start With One, a simple approach to upgrade your health, body, mind and spirit to inspire and bring hope and grace to the work of behavior change and personal growth. Now, of all of the books in the personal development space speaking on habit change right now, this one speaks my language. Today, Kathleen shares how to get back in control of your life, health and happiness in a way that is stupid simple, holistic and kind. Behaviour change through the lens of self-compassion, using what we know from the field of neuroscience for sustainable change. I loved this conversation with Kathleen, and if you loved it too, don't forget to hit subscribe. Without further ado, let's dive in.

Kathleen, welcome.

KATHLEEN:
Thank you so much for having me.

JEMAINE:
Oh, you are so welcome. It is a pleasure and an honor. Kathleen, I was so excited to have you on the show because your message is one that I so deeply align with, both, you know, integrative practitioners ourselves and pivoting in our career evolution from fitness into nutrition and just really, I guess, awakening to the realities of the world of wellbeing. It really feels amazing to just connect with like-minded women and speak about things that really align with my values. So I'm incredibly grateful to have you here today. Thank you. Now, Kathleen, I would really love to start with a little bit about you, a bit about your background and your own health journey, and then we'll kind of dive into this incredible asset that you've brought to the world, your book.

KATHLEEN:
Yes, thank you. I started my wellness, my dive into health, wellness, fitness, When I was about 18, 17 years old, I didn't do a lot of sports. I'm one of eight kids, but my twin sister taught aerobics. And so I started with her and I was kind of her little sidekick. And then at about 19, I started teaching. back then, this was in 1982, there wasn't, it wasn't really a profession. You didn't have a wellness, a lot of personal trainers, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger was, you know, big then. So you had the bodybuilding and stuff. But I started teaching and really I've just been working in fitness as a group exercise instructor from step to cycle to strength training. I've been doing personal training. I had a studio out of my home for about 10 years. and moving into integrative wellness. And now I am also a health educator at our local medical group here. So that's, it's just really been a part of my life for many, many years, for decades.

JEMAINE:
Yeah. Obviously your sister being in the fitness world as well, is this something that was a strong value within the home dynamic in your family growing up?

KATHLEEN:
Not necessarily. You know, it's interesting in life. Sometimes opportunities come in a moment and you take them and it takes you on a road. It takes you down a path. And that's really what this is. No, this was not driven from a family value. I mean, we did have family values. We ate well and other things as far as wellness and activities and movement. But we weren't really sports oriented as far as us girls. My brothers played sports. And probably it was more common at that time. But no, so and it's been lovely because my sister and I are still really doing the same thing. She's also a fitness and wellness professional, integrative health coach. And so it's been really fun to and passionate about wellness and food and movement. It's been fun to do this together.

JEMAINE:
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, that is a huge element of how we're shaped, right? It's where the circle of influence around us. So having that team of people around us that share those same values and interests can be really powerful in our own journey as well. Absolutely. Yes. So we've kind of touched on and used the word integrative health and integrative wellness a little bit in this introduction. Can you, just for the audience, just share with us what is integrated wellness?

KATHLEEN:
Yes, integrative wellness is probably more commonly known as holistic health or holistic wellness, which is the harmony and balance of the body, mind and spirit. That's how I define it. It is knowing that how we nourish our body, whether it's through physical activity or through something we eat or what we nourish in our minds, what we take in, or even our spirit, it affects our whole being because we are integrated and we are not isolated. So if we, as an example, if we exercise regularly and eat really well, but we are in a kind of a toxic relationship, or we hate our job, or another factor, we're lonely. Those kind of things do not make for good integrated body, mind, spirit, health. So even though we can be doing something really well in one area, and we know when we do something well in one area, it does affect other areas, for sure. True integrated wealth is the balance and harmony of our body, mind, and spirit coming together.

JEMAINE:
And I absolutely love that that is a key part of your message, Kathleen, because this is what I saw in my own career revolution, starting as a personal trainer in the gym. And I realized there was such a focus on the aesthetic aspect of our being. And that started my curiosity thinking, you know, I can help people at that deeper level. And I thought nutrition was going to be that next step. And it ended up being naturopathy and herbal medicine that opened the world of holism in well-being to me, but I recognized as a practitioner that it's all well and good to have these tools, the right diet and the supplements and the exercise programs, but what I saw quite often is that they're not really dressing the being beneath the behavior. There's a lot of self-sabotage. There's a lot of self-doubt, procrastination, and these elements that you know, a lot of the time we know what it is we need to do. We know what is quote unquote healthy and what is quote unquote not healthy, but yet we just, our intentions don't necessarily align with our action. And this is where I think it's really beautiful the way that you've coined integrative wellness there is that, you know, there is a being beneath our behavior and these tools can certainly help, but unless we actually address why we keep holding ourselves back, there's only a level of distance that we're going to get in that journey, isn't there?

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely. And if I may, one of the things that really drove me to write Start With One was because there's a lot of books on habit creation, and there's a lot of books around health and eating right, exercising. Working with people, though, that were really in a desperate place in their health, I heard the way they talked to themselves. And my heart would just break the way they would talk to themselves. And so I thought, and I knew, I always knew this message of integrated health, that you can't put yourself down and call yourself names and doubt every move and be stuck in fear and be healthy. And as many books as there are around about diet and exercise, I felt really compelled to talk about all of that.

But I really wanted my message to like have this umbrella of grace, this self compassion for the changes that need to be made and how complex it is to make changes. Because our behavior runs so, so deep in our psyche, in our body, in our cells. And so when we fail at something that we want to do, we beat ourself up again. But you know, that does not work. That will never move us forward. So my message, I wanted to be really loud and clear that Behavior change is complicated, but we must cover it with grace and kindness and compassion for ourself because we are learning something new and we are undoing things that we have been practicing for years and decades. And without that kindness and without that connection of really appreciating what we're doing, I kind of feel like some of these changes that are demanded of us to get really healthy are not going to work. They're kind of setups for failure.

JEMAINE:
Yeah. Let's dive into that a little bit. We're talking about a lot of that inner dialogue and these deep-seated belief systems that can throw us off path and spiral us in a way. In your opinion, what do you think this is actually doing to the physical body? I mean, often when we look at health, our focus is on the material, what we can see, because it is that tangible aspect showing us that we're actually moving forward. If we're not compassionate and we're not kind to ourselves and we're falling victim to the inner dialogue that we're cycling through, what is the consequence on that? Do you see that materialize in that physical realm as well?

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely. We know the physiological results of stress. And stress, when I talk about stress, I am talking about stressors in life. But we also know that the stressors that we respond to are our perceived stresses. And they may be real, they may not be. Most of our stress that we take in that disturbs our cells and our hormones and our body and our heart, they are perceived stress. which, and they are often chronic. So this mindset of being in this stress, this no, I don't have time, or the cycle of being really self-critical or comparing this is really hard on our body on a cellular level.

You know, there's a lot of work and research going into this neuroplasticity, which is so wonderful. And what we're finding, and I think it's going to be remarkable the more we dive into this and the more we discover, is that our brain connection to our cells and to our psyche. And it's really, we can say that what we think affects our body, but the neuroplasticity shows this on a scientific level. It really does. And how we can create new neural pathways through how we are shaping our thinking. So it is definitely a science that is growing and there's going to be more and more science that will show us more concisely what is happening but we already know this. Don't we love it when science catches up to this stuff that we already know? But yeah, when you see somebody who is stuck in negativity, self-criticism, lack of purpose, anger, unforgiveness, it wreaks havoc on the body on a cellular level. We already know that it's not good for the heart. We say stress kills. Well, it really does. The tension from the chemicals that are released in this state of tension is very wearing on the body to have chronically. It raises inflammation. It's hard on the heart. It's really a very physiological drain the body, yeah.

JEMAINE:
And it was, I think it was several years ago, it was Bruce Lipton that it was some of his texts that I really resonated with and he was sharing that, you know, if an example to really illuminate this, if two people were to get on a roller coaster and one person has an absolute fear, they are fearing for their life before they jump on this ride, they're going to get on that roller coaster and the immune chemicals that the body is going to make under that state of stress perception, exactly as you illuminated so well, is the exact immune chemicals that can drive cancer. However, if somebody is in that line for that roller coaster and their perception of that exact same experience is one of joy and excitement, The interleukins, the immune chemicals that the body can create under that sense of joy, is the same chemical compound that is actually used in cancer therapy, that people spend tens of thousands of dollars as a pharmaceutical to heal cancer. And I remember I was in college at the time when I first started immersing myself in Bruce Lipton's materials, and I thought that was just so potent to show that the exact same experience with two different mindsets can cause two total different physiological responses for the body.

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely. And Bruce Lipton, he's really a pioneer in this field. And he's been doing it for many, many years. But probably the last 10, it's really come more mainstream, if you want to call it that. And absolutely, because what we know is that our experiences are the things that we learn, our environment, just like you were saying, our environment changes us on a on a neurological level, and it creates these neuropathways with each different experience. And when we perceive it one way or another, then it has a corresponding chemical response, and just what you were saying. So yes, it's fascinating. It's fascinating.

JEMAINE:
Now, I hear a lot of different trains of thought around, I guess, the integration of the mindsets and then the physical action towards healthy change. And, you know, some, I hear one train of thought that is that you have to address the mindset first, as we touched on, you know, we can have all these tools for taking care of our physical health. However, if we keep self-sabotaging and don't address the belief systems and mindsets, then we're only going to go so far. However, there's this other train of thought, and yet again, more science to support this, is that unless we actually have the nutritional resources and the foundations for the physical body and our health, then we're not going to have the mental resilience, per se, to be able to start changing our belief systems and improving our psychology behind that as well. Do you find that there is, it's best to address one before the other? You know, looking at these elements of self-doubt and unworthiness and our own belief within ourself, or starting with, you know, harnessing the diet and better food and quality movement, or is this something that needs to be done simultaneously on that journey to truly create an environment that's going to support behavior change?

KATHLEEN:
Yeah, that's such a good question. And I don't think there is one answer to that. I think we are, we are just individually ready for different things at different times. When there's that saying, you know, you you tell them what they want, and then you give them what they need. When I have worked with people, they came and they presented wanting to lose weight, or start exercise program, they don't know where to start. And that's where we start. But I know, and until we get to some of their barriers in their mind that have prevented them from doing this on any consistent basis or have had them start and then quit, and all these barriers in their mind and what they can and can't do, I know that until we get to that, it won't be sustainable. But we will start with what's in front of us, that's what they want. So we start with the simple things, because then if they start walking, or they start drinking more water, or they start bringing in more good plant foods, they will feel better. And so then, and their state, their emotional, their mental state will present itself. It'll just unfold. And then so as we work together, then we start exploring that. But I think for many people, because they don't come in necessarily with that desire to say, Hey, you know, I have these mental blocks, I'd like to get this. They say, they look at the results that they're living in, a sick body, unhealthy, they're overweight or whatever. That's what they present. So that's what we deal with. And of course, to sustain anything, you have to come into that integration. But I think to start with that, it would really depend on the person if they understood that it was even important or that there was a problem to even deal with, right? There's no problem, so what do you deal with? It's like, okay, let's walk first. And then behavior starts coming up, resistance, barriers, and then you can address it. I don't think there's a one way. I think people are ready for what they're ready for.

JEMAINE:
And this is what I so love about your book, because as you touched on at the beginning, there are so many books in the space of habit transformation, and there's so many books in terms of health and well-being and in all of the different facets. What I think is really powerful about your book is that it is supporting people in that one step. that tiny, simple action that will start the momentum for change. But it's also giving the context. As you mentioned, you're meeting them with where they are. Okay, cool. Let's get you drinking some water. Let's get you walking the block before you run the marathon. but also helping them understand that on this journey, we're also going to start to have a look at your inner dialogue and the kindness that you have towards yourself. And that education is, in my opinion, it's what makes for sustainable change. Because often we're in this society where We are looking for the quick solution and we're expecting it to come from people, circumstances and things outside of us. And so we're looking for that magic pill. And when we take that route of convenience where we expect someone's going to hand it to us, there's no. understanding and self-awareness in that journey. So when we don't see that immediate and tangible result, we think this doesn't work because there's no understanding to the basis of the elements that are involved in that change. And this is really truly where I think your book is so powerful because each chapter dives deep into these aspects of why someone may be coming to see you on the surface level, but then integrates it. And it really is such an empowering book. which is, you know, I would love to learn about the book, your inspiration behind the book, and what your big vision for writing this kind of text was.

KATHLEEN:
Yeah, well, it was really what you just talked about. It's about integrating definitely the mind-body-spirit connection, the integration, because like you said, no change is sustainable. And kind of getting back to that just for a moment, What people have done when they reach out and they ask for help, which is first of all, that's an amazing thing, and I applaud people who do that. They understand that they need outside help, and whatever that might look like, accountability, they need direction, they need information, whatever it might be, they reach out for help, so I applaud them. So often, people who, are in poor health. And this is really what I'm speaking of. I'm not speaking to the athlete that just wants, you know, an athletic coach to just go further. I'm talking about someone who wants to improve their health because they don't feel good where they're at, for whatever reason. They have probably tried before, maybe many, many times, maybe dozens or hundreds of times, whether it's a diet, or they've tried to start exercising, they just can't sustain it. There is a lack of trust for their word. You know, this whole idea of being impeccable with your word. They don't even trust when they say they're going to do something. I'm going to walk. I'm going to walk tomorrow. I'm going to start tomorrow. I'm going to start that diet on Monday. And they won't. But they say it. And so when they say things, they don't even believe themselves. This is where one can get to when they've tried and failed and tried and failed and tried and failed. And so they just kind of talk now and they'll say, yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to start.

Well, the idea of this start with one and keeping it so, so simple is first of all, it's attainable. It's an attainable goal. It's very doable, but it's, it's about, if I say I'm going to drink water, 30 ounces, okay. We're going to go for 60, 65, but right now they don't, they drink none. So we're going to go for 30. Okay. So what that's going to look like is going to eight in the morning. Then by noon, have your second glass. Let me really, really simple because The condition of saying they're going to do something and believing and following through with it is what they need to build. Talk about neuroplasticity. They need to build new neurons that says, when I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. And then they start saying things, and then they respond accordingly. Because it's such a habit to say something and not do it, say something and not do it. So you got to really turn that habit around on a neurological level, on a mind level, that they start really trusting their own words.

So that is the idea of the Start With One, is to make it so, so simple, meet people where they are, And then because this is a complex and challenging and sometimes complicated issue with health, and I say that to the respect that the behaviors that we do on a daily basis are grounded sometimes in beliefs that go back when we were barely walking. They go back to family traditions. They go back to feeling loved. This is how I get a gal in my group the other day that said she had an aha and she said, I'm realizing that I have always connected food with love. OK, so we're going to undo some of that. Well, that's that's complicated. It's not so easy. So this is what I mean by complicated. We have we have, you know, food and and isolation and binging and other addictions and stuff rooted in. environment maybe that has we've surrounded ourselves since we've been a little with messaging stories that go back years and decades and so The idea is that if we identify that we want to change something We get real about it.

We make it so doable so we can build some confidence and trust in ourselves and We have patience and love and compassion for ourself because it is complicated and it can be really hard and it triggers so many things. If you think about this woman who said, I'm realizing that food always meant love to me. Okay. What about when she feels sad or lonely? She's going to go to food. What about when she wants to give love? She goes to food. So, it is complicated and it takes a lot of patience and just compassion to kind of walk through this going, uh-oh, I've always dealt with this feeling with food. What can I do about it? What can I do now? How do I approach this? And if we can go It's okay, I'm learning. I'm a work in progress and I'm learning and this fall, this drift, this mistake, whatever, it's okay. It's part of my journey. So that was a big reason why I wanted to just express that in this book and kind of also look at how how we have created this situation. And I start with food and inactivity, because there's so much behind the food system that is creating our sickness. And when you have a nation that's 70% of the people are overweight or obese, there is a problem. And our food system has a lot to do with it. And so, you know, we don't take responsibility for personal choices, but you also have a system that is designed for this. So it's very complicated.

JEMAINE:
Thank you so much for sharing that. One thing that I found really powerful in your why behind this book was the fact of addressing Overcoming just talking and actually taking action. I mean, we started that conversation around something so simple as just drinking a glass of water. But then you took that even deeper to something as simple as just honoring your word. And I don't see a lot of people including that element of behavior change in the conversation because We can take one simple step, but you are very right, particularly in those people who do feel trapped and that their health is outside of their control or that they're exhausted because they've tried everything with no luck or success, to be able to come back to a place where you can honour your word. That feels good for someone coming from, you touched on working with people with binge eating in their behavior. And that is a huge element of my past. And that had some deeper meaning, what food bought for me within my own personal life. And I cannot explain to you the moments, those small moments in the beginning where the things that I said and the things that I did actually became congruent. That felt like, that is a feeling that was tangible in the moment. It was like a celebration within. It might have been a micro moment celebration, but when you've been at war with yourself for so long and, you know, what you have in your conscious mind and the way you're acting on autopilot when they're so conflicting, just to be able to honor that word is powerful. So I really do thank you for having that as one of the underpinning foundations for where this book came from. I think that's so beautiful.

KATHLEEN:
Yeah, well thank you for sharing that. It is, it is the, our own personal integrity that does get lost when we are out of control we're spiraling you know in our in our body mind or spirit and to to build that integrity back slowly but surely and when we have integrity okay you say i'm gonna drink some water and i do just like you said you know those little moments that you go i did what i say i said it was in a joke So we know that feels good in the spirit. So there's that connection right there. There's the integration. We can start our self-esteem. We have a nice little heart there with our self-esteem. You know, it just went up a little bit. We feel like we are more honorable to ourselves. And so this is where that integration comes from. So what we do and think and say and all of this is connected. And so it's the littlest things and it's the littlest things that will bring us in the other direction. Yes. Yes. So it's not typically a. People will be in years and years and years of unhealthy behavior. And then they say, oh my gosh, I want to get healthy. It took years to get to that place of where you are in that state of disease or unhealthy state. It takes time to come back. Now, I think with consistency and different behaviors, you're on the road. But just to have that, just to have that grace and that patience as we build back up, because it's not usually a sudden thing. It's usually the chipping away at those little tiny things that build us or break us down.

JEMAINE:
Absolutely. Now, I would love if, I mean, we've touched on water being a really stupid, simple step that we can take towards health change. I'm wondering if you could, just to give the listeners a little bit of an example of how something so small can be so profound, using the example of, you know, someone who's not drinking water, just adding one glass to their day and building from there. What could the trajectory of that potentially look like if, let's say, as an example, we're looking at somebody who is perhaps has struggles with sleeping, is overweight, is incredibly stressed, feeling burnt out. That one step of introducing a glass of water to their day, what could that potentially lead to?

KATHLEEN:
Well, again, so it seems so small and it seems insignificant. It's like really, it almost seems ridiculous. You know, there's that idea of we reduce things to the ridiculous and that's with any kind of change, right? Because what we know is you can drink a glass of water, right? It's the power of suggestion. See, it's so true. So we make it so doable. You drink a glass of water. Now it may seem small, but again, let's go back to keeping your word. So you drink a glass of water. Well, you've kept your word and you just noted how important that is, how good it feels. Good. Let's drink two. I'm going to drink two glasses of water. Or go to 20 ounces. So they've already done the 10 ounces and that's from zero. right? And because 10 ounces is not enough. It's not enough. Nor is 20. But you got to start somewhere. And they start thinking, yeah, I'm drinking water. Well, what we know is when you drink water, you actually want more water. Right? I mean, it's just the natural, our body's like, oh, thank you. You know, I'll take some more of that. And we start bringing attention and intention to a behavior. The behavior is drinking more water. That is the intention today. So I'm going to bring awareness to the fact that I even want to drink it because I've never paid attention. This is in this case, so I've never paid attention to drinking water. I don't even know if I had a glass the last week. This is where, this is what we might be dealing with, right?

So it's a practice of bringing attention to what you want to do, intention to a certain behavior, building up those small little moments of integrity and congruence with what you say you're going to do, confidence, and the self-esteem that you're building slowly but surely, like 10 ounces at a time, whatever that case may be. And then you start I can drink, I can drink 30 now. I'm good for 30. People will, once they start moving in a direction, they get excited. And especially when they're successful, they go that sometimes they're actually want to get ahead. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to get, I'm going to drink a hundred. No, no, no, no. Don't, don't do that. Don't do that now. Just be consistent at 50. Be consistent. So every day you get 50 and you write it down, you do your little star on your calendar or whatever, and you do 50. But they're already feeling really confident and good and they want to do more. That is the natural movement and momentum of starting with this tiniest little thing. So they, they feel good. They want to do it. They immediately, their body feels better. They have more energy, right? Their digestion is better. They're not in a state of dehydration, so their brain is better. They're thinking, I mean, water is amazing. It seems so simple, but it will change you and how you feel if you're consistently drinking water. And from nothing to even a little can be very noticeable. So it's the same thing about people who are inactive, starting with a simple walk. We know that this is not the end, the end state. This is just the beginning. So, walk to the corner and back. Just walk to the corner and back. Do it three times a week. It might be a six-minute walk. It's okay. They're not doing anything now. Walk to the corner, right? And then they get out there, you know what exercise does, gets you feeling good, your blood flow, you feel good, you think better, you sleep better. Now, I don't know if six minutes, three times a week is going to do this, but when you go from zero, your body will say, this feels good, and you will have benefits, even at the littlest. In fact, we know that people that start from zero, that start an exercise program, have greater benefits than if somebody who's already exercising and just ups their exercise. So it's the beginner that actually will have the most results in just how they feel and the way their body adapts so quickly. And so it's really even though it seems so small, it's just the start. And if they can just build and start being consistent with those little tiny things, the natural momentum is for them to add on. And they do. And they do. And I've worked with people that say, and this is interesting too, because this is kind of a declaration in their mind, I hate exercise. They say, I hate exercise. Okay. Of course, this is something to address, right? How they sabotage their exercise because in their mind they hate it. But even besides that, let's put, okay, Um, you have to do it. You have to move. You have to do something. So, um, then we start by what is, what is one thing that you can do that you might like? Like, would you dance? Would you put your favorite song on and just dance for a few minutes? So it doesn't seem like exercise, but see it. So of course there's also right. Bringing in the sabotaging thoughts. of declaring you hate something. If I declare I hate something, I wouldn't do it either. But it's just the little, it's just the little things. And then those same people that have declared they hate exercise will later say, I love exercise. Yes, yes, yes. Because they started with just the little things and it's like, okay, but you're going to do something. And then pretty soon they got the benefits and then they declare how they love it. So that's the progression and that's a very natural progression.

JEMAINE:
And while we're on the conversation of exercise, I think that declaration is so powerful. And I know a really beautiful friend of mine shared with me, I mean, exercise has been a part of my life since I know, you know, it's always been an element that I love. And sometimes when it is your everyday, you kind of become a little bit oblivious to how it's naughty in other people's lives and how it can be quite triggering. I remember I was on a walk with a girlfriend one day and she had actually said, you know, the word exercise triggers me. I feel triggered because she was in a relationship where there was a lot of coercion and he started to put a lot of emphasis on how her physical body looked. And along with that, you know, she would work away at a mine site. And when she would come, when she was up on site, he would say to her, have you exercised today? He would ring her and be like, can you send me a video of you exercising in the gym? I don't believe you. And this in itself, it took her many years after the end of the relationship to realize what that had actually done. But coming out of that relationship, she put on her comfort blanket. She started to gain a lot of weight. And it was through her healing journey that she started to recognize, you know, I, I didn't want to be that person he was making me be. And so exercise trigger, she knew she needed to move. She knew she needed to exercise, but I hate exercise, was sitting there. But when I reframed that for her in the conversation and said, what is healthy movement to you? And she started to think, you know, I love the ocean. I love swimming. I love walking along the beach. I love dancing with my sister and my little nephew. And in that moment, her eyes just lit up and she thought, oh my gosh, this is exercise. Healthy movement was a way that she could reframe that past and welcome that element back into her routine. And I think it's really powerful. As you said, as soon as we make that declaration, it can be really, really hard to step beyond that and move into something that initially generated so much fear.

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely, what a lovely story and what a great question that you gave her that she could because our thoughts Are not always right, you know don't believe everything we think right so that we would question our thoughts Is a good thing and when you and when you asked her that It had her question that like yeah What do I what do I like and the idea of? Do I really hate exercise? I mean, really? You know, there was, she needed the connection that it brought up for her, but she didn't really hate exercise. But that was, that was a brilliant question that you asked her.

JEMAINE:
And I think when we're looking at exercise, a lot of people have this image come to mind of that linear push-pull motion in a gym setting. And maybe the gym isn't for you, but that doesn't mean exercise isn't for you. Hiking, you know, all of these different elements where you can bring an active lifestyle into your world can be exercise and it can be powerful.

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely, yes.

JEMAINE:
Now, I'd love to hear your opinion while we're on the topic of exercise. I think, and you articulate this really well in your book, is the different handbrakes to exercise. And I think it would be really relevant to have a discussion around, I guess, immobility and the elements in our environment and the changing, the rapidly changing state of our environment that is causing people not to take that step and get out of the seat and away from the telly and off their phone and into that healthy movement. I'd love to hear your opinion on, I guess, this technology age and its influence on our wellbeing.

KATHLEEN:
Yes. Wow. Wow. Well, you know, it was recorded that the people who gained weight, unwanted weight during COVID, there was an average of 29 pounds of unwanted weight, which is a lot. So that is a direct correlation to technology. and to sitting more. We already sat enough. Yeah. Oh, wow. We have to be really deliberate. We have to be much more deliberate about getting up. I suggest to people set alarms on their phones to get up because hours and hours can go by and they will not get up out of their chair. So they have this, they're sitting for hours, they're in a stressful, as they perceive it, a stressful situation with work and they got time crunches and all those, that's just a stress on your body as you're perceiving this, right? Deadlines. So I suggest people definitely drink water, drinking water while you're sitting if you're working from home, for an example, we'll definitely have you get up, because you have to get up to go to the bathroom, which is a good thing. And I have worked with people who do work from home and who sit in front of the computer. And so we have water bottles, which forces one to get up, hopefully, and hold it, which they do. Alarms. Commitments, kind of personal rules around what they're going to do that day as they sit in there, as they know that they have to be sitting or standing, get a stand-up desk, that's another option, but be in front of the computer for all day.

They have personal rules, like every hour they're gonna go downstairs or upstairs, or they're gonna go to the kitchen and actually grab their water, and then they're gonna come back, even those little breaks. But it is, our world has so much sitting down right now, and it's how we all function. I think we need tools to kind of slap ourself out of just the sitting down for hours upon hours, whether it's TV might be shut off at a certain time or social media where you have an alarm or a switch off on your phone or certainly your kid's phone where you have limitations. When my kids were home, I turned off the internet. It was automatic. My cable company, I had an app and I could say, the internet goes off at this time. And it did. And so we need tools like that because our tendencies and the way social media is and a lot of what we are in front of screen-wise, there is a lot of science that they use to catch us and to keep us. and to get our attention. And so we're going, we're kind of fighting against this tendency that is very manipulated on the other end, our tendency to sit and watch and their manipulation on the other end to keep us, our attention. And we just have to have tools to figure out how to break that. It's almost like a spell. What do you think? What do you think about that?

JEMAINE:
I completely agree. We see with advancing technology and the competition with all these different platforms, the algorithms are all changing. And I mean, you look at Reels, for example, they started on Instagram and went to TikTok and now they're on YouTube and they're a way to start with a 30 second snippet. And before you know it, you've lost two hours just scrolling and scrolling to all of these little videos. One thing I think is really powerful in what you've just shared in your perspective of this technology, but also it's been a theme that's popped up a lot throughout our conversation is intention and coming back to this present moment because very often we are on autopilot and it's very easy to feel victim to the outside world and out of control and unable to make a change in our lives where we slip into that autopilot. And this is a huge element of what we're learning in the fields of neuroplasticity. You know, the more you do something, the more you do, and the less you do, the less you do. And so I think a lot of this, if people listening truly want to make a change within their life, they have to become conscious in the present moment.

We can't just slip into that past practice behavior. We can't just you know, fall into this state of complacency. I think any element on our healing journey and just in life we need to take that when you feel yourself slipping into technology or, you know, the spiral of inner dialogue or whatever it may be, when we can become aware of it, become the observer, I think this is a really powerful element of the healing journey is Just don't come in with the intention to fix who you are. You're not broken. But be the observer, because it's awareness that precedes change. And for someone, I don't own a television, and I never used to be at war with social media. It's not something that I enjoy being on myself personally. And because it's not something that's in my life, more recently with the job change, I'd started being on social media more often and got sucked into the reels. And I woke up, I witnessed myself mindlessly for about an hour on the scroll. And it's that observation where it allows you to become conscious and think that is not congruent with who I am and what I'm trying to step forward and into. And so being the observer in life, because these technologies are only going to continue to advance. And we need to be able to take that big belly breath to bring us back into the body in the moment and make a conscious decision. And I guess ask the question, is this in alignment with the goals that I've set for myself? And if it's not, the simple act of being that observer and taking that step back allows us in that moment to create a change. And I just, do you resignate with that in terms of that, taking that conscious control?

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely. Actually, it's absolutely true. Awareness. I will say, when we are in that state of awareness, so it might be like, I don't want to, or I want to limit my screen time to an hour a day. When we are aware of what we want to create, then we kind of design and commit to these personal rules during this aware time. Because if we wait until we're already sucked into the reels, woo, we're already gone. But we create them when we are designing intentions around certain things, whatever it might be, screen time or sitting or social media. And we go, okay, for an example, I am not going to sit for any more than an hour and a half without getting up. Even if it's for five minutes, I'm going to get up. Okay. Now I'm not saying that, I'm not deciding that when I'm completely immersed in work and I'm just like super focused. I say that when I'm in that space of that presence and that intention and that awareness of what I want to create. put some tools around it. I put my alarm on because if, if an hour and a half comes, I'm not going to want to get up. Or an hour comes and I'm like, well, I'm still looking at reels or the, I just started a new show. I can't get up now. So we have like personal rules and we try to set our tools to help us follow through with those actions that we wanted to create. Same thing with how my computer or my cable would go off at a certain time. My TV went off. It just went off. And so it was like, Oh, I guess I was going to bed. Because, you know, if they're watching TV, there's no more TV. That was a tool that was used. It could be a tool for your social media or an alarm or something to jar you out because we get sucked in. And if we wait for those moments when we're already kind of sucked in to decide, it's not going to happen.

So what you were talking about, this awareness, and it is only through awareness that we have choice. So with that awareness and during those times of awareness and intention, we can make a choice and then create these personal rules, establish some tools to help us create the life and the living that we want, which probably doesn't include six hours of social media or, you know, eight hours of TV on a weekend or whatever it might be, you know, just hours and hours of sitting. And, you know, these ideas are across the board. They're with any kind of behavior. You don't decide. If you're going to eat something or not eat something, when you're tired or lonely or afraid or stressed, you've decided already. And then you've created your environment to help you follow through with that, because you're going to have these weak moments. So it's with anything. You've decided already when you've connected with your intention. You've created a personal rule, like I don't eat after 7pm. So when somebody comes over with cookies at eight, you would normally say, Oh, gosh, welcome, come on in, I'll eat those with you. But you already have a personal rule in place. And so you don't think about it at the time, you have to create these ideas when we when you are dealing with that awareness. And then that's how we create the environment and to support what we want to how we want to behave.

JEMAINE:
And I love that you draw on these tools, because I think, you know, the more we start to use these tools, and it may feel uncomfortable and frustrating at times, even though we've set them in those moments of intention, and then the alarm's gone off in those moments where we're immersed in the activity. However, when we close the hindsight gap and can introspect on what what honoring that actually looked like. It may mean more intimacy in your relationship, more quality time with the family and kids, more sleep, you know, that walk around the block and more congruency to the other intentions that align with your goals that are the natural ripple effect of just setting those tools for that one action, right? Often it seems to be that ripple effect. You start with one and it overflows into so many pools of your life and your well-being.

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely perfectly said yes that's right and that's this is where um when we and i have i go back to certain things that i've said yes to and i love kind of that idea of like i remember i said yes to this and my life is totally different because i said yes to something years ago and you know i didn't know i was saying yes to this moment you know 10 20 years later i said yes then but it just it just this is how life is and yes it creates so many doors and opportunities for other things that you didn't even know. Living in alignment. That's right. That's friendly.

JEMAINE:
Now, Kathleen, I have a few questions that I finish with at the end of every show that I would love to spend some time with you on. Number one, we've spoken a lot about behavior change and certain actions we can do in our well-being. I would love to know, do you have a morning routine and what does your morning routine look like?

KATHLEEN:
Yes. I do have a morning routine. I think we all do, right? We are creatures of habit. This is where behavior, when it's a habit, is so nice when it's good behavior, because it's so easy, you don't even have to think about it. And it's also difficult when it's not so good, because you have to bring a lot of awareness to change something that's unconsciously embedded. So yes, I do have a morning routine. Before I get out of bed, I always, I thank God that I have, that I woke up, honestly. And I really stay in bed in a state of just gratitude. And I just claim, you know, love and light and power in my life. And I pray for my family, and I pray for my day ahead of me. It's such a habit now, I wake up and I just start it. And I'm so grateful for that, that that's the first place I go. And then I go for coffee. I have, I actually, I have a coffee, I do chicory and coffee. And it's my little concoction and I love it. There's a lot of, we like the, I like the calmness and the ritual of my coffee was funny. And then I always walk. I walk every morning. I walk usually between 45 and 60 minutes. And although it is exercise, I have hills here and there around here. It is not my exercise. I do other things. My walk is my mental health walk. My walk is my getting light in the morning and getting movement and getting my my body going. I do walk, a brisk walk, but it is my time to be still. It's my time to do walking meditation. It's my time for prayer. Sometimes I'll listen to a podcast or music. It's my time and I love starting my day like that. And then I go on from there and I will, as far as my routine for just my, and that's also when I do my baking and my cooking and do it in the early morning, like, like early morning. And that's when I do, that's when I'm most alive and well and grateful and energized. And so that's, that's, those are my mornings. And once that's, those are set, anything can happen. It's all good, because I had such a good morning.

JEMAINE:
That is so beautiful. And one element that I would just want to tap in there, the fact that you prepare your food and do your baking in those moments of the highest point of gratitude, and I would imagine self-love and energy, is that all that TLC is going into your food. And you look at a lot of traditional cultures where food is ceremony and community and love, and it has so much meaning to it. I know a lot of Ayurvedic philosophy, you put your love into the food that you bring to your family and the fact that you're in this heightened state when you're preparing your meals, I can only imagine that that in itself has knock-on health benefits on top of the food that you'll be eating.

KATHLEEN:
You know, thank you for bringing that up. I remember when I was cooking for my family and we had a couple vegans and we have my brother who doesn't have onions and that's hard, that's really hard. And so I was preparing and my niece said, she said, I feel the love in your food. And I said, oh, thank you. Because it's there. It is there. So thank you for mentioning that. It is definitely in that state. And it's really an inspired state to be in. Yeah.

JEMAINE:
How beautiful. Now, I'd also love to know if you could give our audience one question to reflect on. What do you think that one question will be that'll, I guess, be the difference that makes the difference?

KATHLEEN:
I would, I would have them ask themselves, what do I want? What do I want? I think sometimes when we get back to, to intention and presence, we so many times with all the distractions in life and the busyness and the stress and all the things that we've kind of talked about. We don't even know what we want. Life is taking us for a ride instead of us saying, this is what I am creating. And unless we know what we want, we don't know the path to go on one. And we don't even know if we have a right in front of us. We could literally have what we want in front of us and we don't even know it. So I would ask, and I understand not even being clear about what I want. I remember a time, this was in my 20s, and I had broke up with my boyfriend and I, anyways, I went to Cancun. And I was kind of also the caregiver in the family, even though I was one of the youngest and just by nature. And I felt like I had kind of lost myself. I didn't even know what I wanted. And here, so I went on vacation by myself. I went there by myself. And then I was like, I don't know what I want to do. I don't even know. And I said, I'm going to figure it out this week. And I started asking myself, what do you want? What do you want? And at first I was like, I don't know. I don't know. And then I started slowly but surely answering. I had an answer for what I wanted to do, but I think it's easy for us to sometimes not even know what we want. So I would have somebody ask themselves that until they get an answer. And it might be many, many times.

JEMAINE:
One element that I learned in my NLP training was when those moments of I don't know come up, and often that is a first response when we're put on the spot. I know you don't know, but if you did know, what would the answer be? And at first, when I learned this tool, I thought, I feel like someone might be triggered by that. I don't know that it would actually work. But when I've tried it, within the second, someone goes, oh, I want this. And it's just like, so you do know there is an element there that knows what you want. You're just too perhaps afraid to put a voice to it, or we're just shiny object and distracted by all the surroundings. And I love that it was a beautiful Cancun setting that allowed you to come to that. But, you know, sometimes to come to that conclusion, it is finding that that silence and that spaciousness where there is no external influence to really ask that question. So I'm very grateful that that is your moment to leave us on with the reflection because I think it's a really powerful one.

KATHLEEN:
And what you just said is so true. We are in the idea of just being disconnected with ourself through everything and distraction. So yes. Ask, what do I want? And if you say, like you just said, if you say to yourself, I don't know, say, well, if you would guess, what would it be? That's a good one. That's a good follow up.

JEMAINE:
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I'm someone who I like to really understand the mechanics of how these different elements work and, you know, where focus goes energy flows and results show. Right. But we've touched on a little bit of neuroscience when we spoke of neuroplasticity today and having that awareness of what it is that we want, there's actually this filtration system in our brain, the reticular activating system. And so in a given second, our nervous system is receiving over 11 billion bits of information, whether it's the feeling of the heart beating in our chest, the ticking of the clock on the back wall, the car driving past the streets, the light in your left periphery. And we can't consciously keep our mind on all of these different elements trying to steal our attention. So our brain has this process where it deletes, distorts and generalizes the world around it to filter those four plus or minus bits of information that it brings into the conscious awareness. And when we don't have intention, A lot of the stacked experiences and collected belief systems and opinions of others and everything that has come into our subconscious and stacked and validated throughout time, they start to tell the brain through, as we said, the neuroplasticity, what we've practiced and recycled and perfected again and again. where to focus.

And so if we're focusing on, you know, the negative elements of life or the disempowering aspects of life, then our brain is going to think that's where our intention is and keep showing those plus or four minus bits of the 11 billion bits of information we can receive. Those four little micro chunks are going to be based on where that unconscious intention is lying. Whereas when we can create awareness and set intention, the brain goes, oh, well, this is important. Let's start to filter that in. Because if we think 11 billion bits in a second chunked down to four, we're deleting like, we're only receiving less than 0.00092% or whatever it may be of the reality that's actually there. So with that intention, we expand that filter and aspects and opportunities that have always been there, finally come into the vision. And I think that's really powerful and potentially in the way of the law of attraction, right? When we know what it is that we want, we don't necessarily need to know the how to get there. But when we have that intention our brain starts filtering in. The opportunities that are there, you might have a conversation with somebody, or you might see a sign posted up on a wall, or pick up a book and the first paragraph just speaks to that intention. We almost feel like, oh my gosh, it's the law of attraction and manifestation, but it's like you've actually just used the neuroscience, the structures and the function of the brain to allow that come into your conscious awareness, and it's through that intention.

KATHLEEN:
Absolutely. So well said. And if we back that up, we come into the law of vibration, right? Because that's really, really, when you talk about this, this energy, that's what that is. Yes. Yeah. And we and it comes into all of that. Just what you said. Yes. Beautiful.

JEMAINE:
Yeah, and if someone wants a visual for that energy, they're just jumping on Google and the Hertz vibration scale, where we can actually see that emotional has that energetic, you know, just like electricity, there's an electrical charge to emotion, and we can have a look at this scale. That'll actually show, you know, love being of this higher frequency and fear and sadness and these other valid emotions but also lower vibrational state emotions when we can start to align with love or above. we actually hit that energy imprint that we can actually align and call in those energetic matches into our life as well. So good, so good. We touched on it at the start of our conversation, the importance of self-love and compassion and kindness in our healing journey. So all of that, what a beautiful way to finish up is drawing the attention to the energy of that particular emotion and feeling and sensation and drawing that in. Absolutely. Kathleen, it has been such a beautiful conversation to have with you today. And I know there is just such a wealth of wisdom. We could have gone so much deeper into the elements of food or sleep and exercise in itself. But I really think we've hit a really powerful message here. And it is the inner world, the compassion and the kindness behind behavior change. And I think your book is something that is changing thousands of lives, millions of lives out there. And so I would love if you could share with my audience, where can they learn about you? How can they work with you? Where can they get their hands on your book?

KATHLEEN:
Well, thank you so much. What a pleasure to be here. You know, when you said that you got connected with your people, you know, early on, I remember connecting to my people and I thought, oh my gosh, I'm not crazy. It's because when you're not in that environment, it can be, and you feel so passionate about whether it's food or movement or the vibration and you're not with your people, it can be tough. So when you are, it's like, yay. So anyway, thank you. Thank you for having me. So, yes, I have Kathleen Kluge book. It's KathleenKLUGEbook.com is where my book is. And I also have an e-course on that. And then KathleenKLUGE.com is where I have my coaching services and I'm going to be forming more I've done more individual coaching, but I'm going to be shifting more to start with one groups, walking through the start with one program and from the eating to the movement to the love of self, the work that we do, that inner work, the mind, the spirit, forgiveness, grace, all that. So we'll do that in a group. So that's KathleenKluge.com for that. And that's where you can find me.

JEMAINE:
Beautiful. I highly encourage all of my audience and listeners right now to get your hands on a copy of Start With One. It is an incredible book. You are doing incredible work, Kathleen, and your book is definitely changing lives. And again, it's been such an honor to have you here to share your wisdom with us today.

KATHLEEN:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight to talk with you. One of my people.