#4: A Broken Society, Bipolar & An Unconventional Path To Healing with Emily May

Joining us on today's episode is Emily, also known by her pen name, Amelia May. 

Emily's journey is one of profound transformation. As a seasoned teacher and the author of "A Broken Society," she shares her personal triumph over mental health diagnosis of bipolar disorder, and pharmaceutically induced disassociation that drove her to suicidal ideation. 

Emily's story delves into childhood experiences of perceived abandonment following her parents divorce, and a lifelong pattern of codependency and failed relationships until her breaking point.

Through a path of self-discovery and healing, Emily unearthed a deeper truth—the dis-ease beneath her disorder, rooted in a lack of self-acceptance and connection. She shares the modalities that helped her find her way back to herself and ultimately led her to come off medications and regulate her emotions naturally.

This powerful conversation delves into the broken systems underlying society and the potential for personal growth through pain. Emily's story is a testament to the transformative power of self-awareness, and embracing the shadows as catalysts for growth and change. 

Disclaimer: The content provided in this episode is for informational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The experiences shared by Emily are unique to her personal journey, and it's crucial to remember that each individual's path to healing may look different. 

Always seek the guidance of a qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding your mental health or medical condition. As we explore topics like bipolar disorder and unconventional therapies, we understand the importance of honoring each person's unique journey. 

Please use your discretion when considering the information provided and ensure that any choices made are in alignment with your individual needs and circumstances.

About Emily May

Emily is a seasoned teacher and author of the book A Broken Society. From overcoming childhood traumas to advocating for mental health in education, her experiences have ignited a passion for addressing mental health and emotional well-being in education, recognizing the broken systems contributing to a fractured society.

Today, she is dedicated to empowering others to seize control of their lives, embark on their healing journey, and discover the profound impact of self-love. Co-founder of an inspiring venture, Kove, Emily brings women together to connect, collaborate, and find the strength to navigate their own unique journeys.

Connect with Emily

A Broken Society: https://amzn.asia/d/2YwpekP

LINKS

Eastern Body Western Mind: Booktopia   

Your Joyful Host - Jemaine Finlay

Women's health naturopath, personal trainer, NLP & behaviour specialist, Heartmath coach, podcaster, speaker, sun-seaker, and world’s most curious human when it comes to consciousness & human behaviour. A bit of a mixed bag! But hey, at least you'll never be bored!

Connect with Jemaine
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/its.allwellness_podcast/
Website: https://jemainefinlay.com/

Transcript

JEMAINE:
Today I’m joined by Amelia May, teacher, and author of thE book A Broken Society. Amelia talks about her journey overcoming a major mental health diagnosis, Bipolar, and what she believes to be the true dis-ease beneath her disorder. Amelia shares about her early  childhood experiences that created her self-defined abandonment and how that led to codependency and a viscious cycle of failed relationships. She shares of her pharmacetutially induced mania and suicidal ideation, and the modaitlies that started her journey back to self, and ultimately coming off her medications and better able to regulate her emotions naturally. This is a powerful conversation that speaks to the broken systems that underlie a broken society, and the journey through the pain that can be the guiding light for others. 

If you enjoyed this episode be sure to like and follow It’s All Wellness on all podcast platforms, instragram and youtube. I hope you enjoy today’s episode, lets dive in. 

Emily, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I'm very excited to have this conversation. Me too.

EMILY:
I'm super excited.

JEMAINE:
Now, Em, I've recently read your book, A Broken Society, and there's so many key themes that I personally can deeply resonate with. And I think that your story is so powerful and it really does illuminate oversimplification of certain health challenges, the way that we kind of express it in society. And I do also think that your story explains in a really raw yet powerful way the reality of the human experience and how that stacked experience over our past actually shapes us today. So I would absolutely love if we could actually start with a bit of an introduction towards A Broken Society, where it came from, and I think that will then beautifully segue into your story and the incredibly powerful message that you have to share with our community and the world.

EMILY:
Thank you, Jem. So for three years, I was writing this book and it evolved so much. It evolved with me over time. So A Broken Society was basically my healing journey, but also what I saw in society that was broken and actually kept me stuck for so long. working as a teacher in the education system, I'm like, why are they learning this irrelevant crap? Honestly, the other day I had a relief class and I had to teach them circumference of a cylinder. And I'm like, how is that relevant to everyone? Yet our own mental health and navigating our emotions and all of this stuff is not taught in schools. So That drove me to say, I need to actually write about this from a professional point of view as a teacher, but also from the point of view of someone that has experienced severe mental health conditions and overcome them. So that's what drove A Broken Society. And I even published it under an alias because I was worried about my job as a teacher and how they would perceive that, which is so wrong because I'm speaking what I feel is the truth for so many of us.

JEMAINE:
Mm-hmm. And so your book really details your human experience, your background, and your journey up until 30 and beyond. And there's a lot of challenges. There's a lot of highs and a lot of lows. And even though a lot of your trauma that I've read throughout the book is the trauma with the capital T, I think your story is something that can really be relatable to people who have the little t traumas that they may not even be aware of. So do you mind just telling us like wherever you feel comfortable a little bit of your background and then a little bit about where that's brought you now in terms of why you're so driven to share an important message with the world.

EMILY:
Yeah, sure. So let's start where it all starts. Let's dive in deep. I'm deep. I am an open book. Honestly, I wrote about my trauma pretty openly. So at seven years old, my parents split up and at that age, you can't actually conceptualize adult relationships and understand, oh, daddy didn't leave because of me. So what it had done to me is it actually created this massive abandonment wound within me. and I went on into my adult relationships constantly seeking another person and I would constantly be driven for that moment of connection but I wasn't actually having any discernment in the people I was choosing for partners. So over time what happened is I would absorb all these different toxic traits from my relationships and all these pains from my relationships. And then at 22, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder because my highs were so high because I was addicted to love and I was constantly in these relationships. But then it would be followed by these toxic breakups, which would bring upon these lows. So my diagnosis was based on my codependency and abandonment issues, but that's something that could have been taught to me when I was younger and I could have navigated. But instead, I didn't know what the hell was going on. And when I was diagnosed with bipolar, I was actually grateful because I was like, oh, this is the reason I am the way I am. But it fails to identify the root cause of the trauma, which is our childhood experiences.

JEMAINE:
Mm-hmm. There is just so much in that that I would love to dissect. So where to start? What I do find super potent is that home dynamic where it all started. And often when we start this healing journey, we're trying to find that big capital T trauma, like what really fucked me up that is like at the root of all this. And we look for those significant events. And what I think we fail to recognize is that before the age of seven, a child's brainwave pattern isn't that of a conscious human being. We're fluctuating from Delta and Alpha and we're not at that true conscious self where we can actually rationalize our surroundings. And I think what's really important is what you said is that, and I see this a lot with clients, is that at that age, mom and dad divorce and a child can't rationalize, oh, it's because they have conflict between them and it's an adult relationship. The child internalizes that as, he doesn't love me, dad's left, he doesn't love me, I'm not good enough, and we start creating these belief systems that stack over time.

Have you ever read the book, it's a Bible for me over the last few years, Anodea Judith, she's written Eastern Body Western Mind, have you ever read that book?

EMILY:
No, I actually haven't. So I'll have to add that to my list to read.

JEMAINE:
Oh my gosh, Em, you will love it. So she has a psychology background and throughout the book, she draws on certain concepts through psychology and integrates it with Eastern philosophy around the chakra systems and the developmental ages of the chakras. And the reason why I bring this up is because in that book, she actually shares that the heart chakra develops between the ages of four and seven years old. In the first couple of years, the child believes its identity is still attached to the mother. And then as it starts to recognize its identity outside of the mother, it's starting to understand its role in that home dynamic between mom, siblings, and father. And then once we get to four to seven years old is generally when we start going to daycare, going to school, childcare, and we're starting to learn self in those out of home environment relationships and that kind of thing. And when that can be disrupted, whether it be through parental divorce or going to boarding school or know any of these kind of disruptions through that that period of time we start to see a lot of life themes with that as the catalyst so things like issues with self-acceptance relationships this is where we're starting to I guess create our sense of self outside of that home dynamic.

The reason why I draw on this is because in this book she actually goes through and outlines examples of certain traumas that can throw this particular chakra off balance and specifically the abandonment, rejection, grief, divorce, also a parent's grief. So this may not be a known emotion for yourself at that age but witnessing maybe your mother or your father or whoever it was that was in the home care with you and internalizing their grief and making meaning of that. That all can kind of throw us off balance and what I find quite interesting she articulates in this book deficiency signs and excess signs, and sometimes these can overlap. When the heart is in excess, we see codependency, poor boundaries, clingy, jealous, over-sacrificing. In contrast to when it's in deficiency, we typically see someone who's withdrawn, quite cold and critical, judgmental, intolerant of themselves and others, and this can kind of interweave a little bit as well.

EMILY:
It's so funny, as you're saying, like, clingy, I'm like, yep, tick box, that was me, all of this. So I need to actually get that book because that's amazing and I would love to learn that perspective, but completely agree with you. I believe if children have these traumas that aren't these significant traumas like divorce happen between the ages of four and seven, I think that there is a significant impact that happens to them. And that's the thing. My trauma that I talk about in this book is none of it's the capital T trauma. This is just like little traumas that have happened throughout my life that have built up that I haven't addressed in the ways that I know now. Another thing that I also want to bring to light, which I'm sure you agree with this, this is something that Teal Swan said recently. So she believes that so much of society is the way it is because the controlled crying method with babies. So that as babies, there was this method that went through that they said, you need to just let babies cry it out. And they actually cannot self-soothe at that age. So that is why so many of us also have these codependent traits or these, they go the opposite way where there's that avoidant traits in relationships.

JEMAINE:
I love that you mentioned that. I've actually, through my NLP coaching, we've gone through with certain clients different techniques around getting them into that deeper state where they can actually access their subconscious mind. And it's quite interesting because when we start this process heading down the timeline, often the very first memory is something that is conscious initially. Oh, you know, when I was seven, I remember this happening. And when we ask them to go deeper, it's actually one of my beautiful clients. She did a lot of beta trialing with some of the courses that I was running and we took her to a moment where she wasn't yet talking. She was only just kind of holding herself up inside of her playpen and she could visually see in this moment trying to scream out or cry out for attention for her mum and she could see her mum in the kitchen. And she wasn't listening, she wasn't responding. And that was the very first moment where she first experienced anger and upset. And other experiences I've had where I've been speaking to someone and it is that they're in the playpen. The mum has the connection and the mum is really like, I can't just leave the child in the playpen to cry it out. But the father is like, no, come on, we've got to just let her cry it out and escorts the mum out of the room. And so this child in that moment who doesn't yet have the words to articulate the emotions that they're feeling starts to I guess self-define this abandonment. They don't love me. Nobody's here for me. I'm unlovable. I'm not worthy. So I think it's really potent that you share that because it's something that I have certainly seen in practice as well.

EMILY:
Yeah, definitely. So that's why so many of us in society don't actually know how to have relationships. We are taught these toxic traits because we weren't actually taught how to co-regulate with another human being.

JEMAINE:
Yes, yes, yes. And so when you also started sharing with us a bit of your journey, you did also mention the diagnosis of bipolar. You mentioned that it gave you a lot of aha moments in terms of the behaviors that had led up to that diagnosis. Did you find that it validated some of the behaviors? How did it affect you?

EMILY:
So for myself, and this is not everyone that gets a mental health diagnosis, I was craving that diagnosis because I didn't want to deal with these behaviors. I wanted someone to tell me, yes, you're bipolar because that's a chronic illness that can't be changed. So when I got that diagnosis by not just one, I got it by three psychiatrists, by the way, it actually made me be like, you know what, I'm just bipolar. So whenever I would go out and my actions would be heightened, or I would get angry or I would behave in a way that wasn't the norm, I would say it's just my bipolar. So it didn't empower me at all. It's only when I hit rock bottom at 30 years old, after I separated with my kid's dad, that I was like, I can't keep living this way. I need to take accountability for my actions. And I no longer believe that this is who I have to be for the rest of my life.

JEMAINE:
Mm-hmm. I think that is really potent when you say you came to a point where you no longer believe. I think a lot of the time until we go through something that is the catalyst or the crisis that forces us to reflect on where we are in our current season of life, until we hit that point, we kind of think that This is our destiny. This is it. This is who I am. And when we start to recognize everything that I believe right now, we have the opportunity to challenge that. Is that really true? Was it always true? Or was that just the way that I saw the world through that younger lens? Or is it somebody else's opinion? I know for myself personally, a lot of the narrative in my mind throughout my teenage years, when I sat back and reflected on it, I was like, oh my God, that's my dad. I don't actually believe that, but often I would be triggered to respond in a certain way and I would react or retaliate. And then I would sit back after and think, who was that? I don't even believe that. And I think it's really, really powerful to then. with that older and wiser self, sit back and look at those past behaviors and think, you know, is that my truth? It may have been a truth in the past and maybe it's just redundant. Or maybe we saw it through a lens that was a little bit foggy in the past and it's not quite even true. Or maybe it's just the conditioning that we've collected from the dialogue of our surroundings that was never actually true for us. So I think it's really powerful. Yeah.

EMILY:
Yeah, definitely. And the self is constantly evolving. So the version of me that I am now, that's not going to be the version I am in 10 years time. So maybe a lot of these perspectives will also be outdated then. But I think this is why it's so important that you're doing this podcast and I'm writing this book is we are just kind of giving people that pocket of knowledge that they're like, wow, I might actually be able to take accountability for my own life and not believe what I'm told by the government, by the medical system, that I might actually be able to change it with my own neuroplasticity within my mind.

JEMAINE:
Mm-hmm. And I love that you touched on neuroplasticity. I hope that's something that we get time to dive into towards the end of our conversation. So Em, as a school teacher, you've just touched on systems. Do you find that there's a particular dialogue around mental health that perhaps lacks this individual variability about how we end up with the label or the diagnosis? Do you think that the way various systems at the moment are having this conversation are really allowing people to become empowered with identifying the subtle nuances that have shaped the way they are today? Or do you think it's more simplified to be able to categorize and then diagnose and then obviously prescribe?

EMILY:
Yes, I definitely agree with what you're talking about. I don't think that there is that deep connection and people don't understand that mental disease is a disconnection to self and to others. So what we desperately need in systems like the education system is connection. That is what we need. Our students are completely disconnected from others and from themselves. They're constantly on devices. The problem is getting worse and worse, and this is someone who's been in the education system for 10 years, I'm seeing it get worse. I'm seeing people get nastier and that the bullying doesn't stop and that they don't look into their own issues. And the entitlement of youth is just getting worse. And that's what I'm seeing as an educational professional. And what I am seeing is people are trying to address it, but only at a surface level. They're not teaching them the tools to change these behaviors.

JEMAINE:
And you know, there's so much research now around neuroplasticity and emotional awareness and I guess trauma awareness as well. And so it is a little bit kind of confronting that this isn't brought into the dialogue that we're having in institutionalized settings as well. Do you think there's a reason behind that, why it is so simplified in that setting?

EMILY:
I think the issue is as well, is there are a lot of teachers that have been teaching for a long period of time and don't like change. And that's how society is. Lots of us, we fear change. So the longer that you've been living in these certain habits and rituals, the less inclined you are to change the way you are. So even if we do try and implement social and emotional learning in the classroom, It has no effect if the teacher teaching the classroom doesn't have a growth mindset. So all of us in education that actually desperately want these changes, we're like, well, there's no point in implementing this program and teaching this curriculum when the teacher's going to sit there and think it's all BS.

JEMAINE:
Yeah. Do you think that is common or do you think there are others like you that are kind of starting to step into that space and make effective change?

EMILY:
I see lots of teachers in the space that want to create changes, but also, unfortunately, I see a lot of teachers like me leave the system because they are exhausted. Because you try and make a difference, but in this huge system where most people don't agree with you, there is very little difference you can make other than the lives of your students. So that's what's kept me in the system, is that I am empowering the lives of my individual students. And like at the moment, my ATAR psychology class, we teach things like neuroplasticity and I am able to put this perspective on it. So me changing the lives of those 20 kids in that class, that's worth it for me.

JEMAINE:
That is powerful. And that's the thing, right? Especially when you are such a heartfelt human being, it can feel so incredibly overwhelming. And as you said, exhausting. When we see the bigger picture. and think like, I can't change that. Me as one person, I cannot change that. But when we do step back as you have done and think, I can't change the system, but I can create a ripple effect. I can still make a difference. And it's that small difference. I mean, you might have a student that becomes inspired by you and then steps out and takes your message and expands that in a new and innovative way. And I think that's where it's just so important not to give up. Just living through our own expression in whatever way that is, being seen and heard and creating a ripple effect far, far greater than we could ever know.

EMILY:
Yeah, definitely. And that's actually why I choose to stay in the education system. Like just a couple of weeks ago, I actually got an ex-student send me a message and it was this little Instagram reel. And it said to the teacher that saved my life. And it's like, Holy crap, if I just did that, like if I just changed one kid's life, then my entire purpose is worth it. So I think my advice to other people is don't look at the big picture and be like, whoa, I can't change this. It's about the little changes person by person.

JEMAINE:
Yeah, absolutely. That is powerful. That gave me shivers. So obviously it's come up a couple of times now. We've spoken about neuroplasticity. So tell us, Emily, seeing as though this is what you're teaching as well in ATAR, neuroplasticity. What is it? How can we use it to really change this current picture of mental health? And how can you use it, or are you using it, in classrooms on that subtle level as well?

EMILY:
So neuroplasticity, which I know you love too because you teach all about it. I've done your course. So neuroplasticity is basically the notion that the brain can be altered and changed, which they used to not believe that, believe it or not. They used to believe that your brain was fixed. But now it's the notion that you can actually alter the neurons in your brain, because there is a lot of them. There is 80 billion of them, 80 to 100 billion, that are all sitting there waiting to be rewired. And the way that you do that is through daily habits and rituals. And you literally need to rewire your brain, which is a supercomputer.

JEMAINE:
And I think it's really, really potent because when we become aware that we do have this ability, that is one thing, looking from the scientific perspective of, yes, this is why we see all these personal development books around habit change and why that conversation is such a topical conversation. We sit there and consciously think, okay, I've just got to do this for 21 days and I'm going to create a new habit and carve out new pathways in my brain and everything's going to be great. But this is where I think the backstory is so important, because consciously we have this intention, but unconsciously we have all of this dialogue of, you're not worthy, no one loves you, you couldn't do that.

The self-loathe, the self-sabotage, the self-doubt, and all of these elements that we touched on at the start, it may have just started from a parent's divorce as an example. And the child creates this perception of, I'm not worthy, I'm not lovable. And then they go to school and maybe they're bullied. and that validates that initial experience. And then, you know, maybe they have their first relationship and it's a teenage relationship and the boy kisses another girl and it revalidates, I'm not worthy, I'm not lovable. Then, you know, between university or the first job and all of the subtle failings and all of these elements that reinforce that very first belief system, I'm not worthy and I'm not lovable. And then we get up and we think, you know what, I'm going to start my own business. And this neuroplasticity thing tells me that even though I've done it this way for so long, I can do it this way and my brain will support me. And so we start setting habits. Maybe we're going to wake up an hour earlier. Maybe we're going to start these supplements to really enhance our cognitive function or whatever it is that we're going to do. But we keep pulling the handbrake or we keep self-sabotaging in these ways. And so I'm so glad that you brought up the neuroplasticity, but I think your story in particular is just such a fantastic way to illuminate that, yes, consciously we can do all of this, but we really need to understand what is unconsciously beneath the surface. Otherwise, we're going to create greater internal friction as we get frustrated with ourselves. And what does that do? Validates. I can't do it, I'm not worthy, and all the other stories that we cycle through our mind.

EMILY:
Yes, I love that you touched on this, because so many people are like, you know, law of attraction manifestation, which aligns with neuroplasticity, like, I am in charge of my destiny. But the thing is, we're all holding on to, I call them like the suitcases, like the baggage. So you have your emotional baggage. And the crazy thing is, it's really simple to release these unconscious belief systems. But the way you've got to do it is unconventional. It's like, the way I mainly release these outdated belief systems is through breathwork.

JEMAINE:
And again, I'm going to draw back to Anadeya Jew, this book. I saw throughout my own career evolution that certain practices are incredibly effective for some people and really, if not triggering, but ineffective for others. And I think it's really great, she outlines in this book, that for each deficiency or excess or imbalance in each of these seven levels of growth, that there are particular modalities that can be effective. So for example, when we're looking at the heart chakra, breath work, emotional release work, psychotherapy, all of these different elements that allows us to really identify the disease or the emotion that has materialized into the disease. Whereas there are other elements or developmental periods of life where perhaps talk therapy is more suited or the somatic therapy is more suited.

I know for myself personally that I'm someone who I have gone to South America and sat with shamans and done ayahuasca and you know while I'm sitting there with 20 other people who are having this psychedelic experience and releasing a lot of trauma and it was intense. I sat there quite numb and didn't feel anything from the medicine. However, it was a local breathwork that I had done that actually took me to a visual moment of the little t-trauma of me swallowing down the emotions and the lump in my throat as that 15-year-old child and saying, suck it up, no one's coming for you, no one cares. And you know, I had done at least two to three years at that point in the personal development space. And I tried psychology and I've tried different psychotherapies. And I myself was doing teaching hypnotherapy and NLP and, you know, done the ayahuasca and done mushrooms and other elements to try and help me release whatever it was that was underneath there. And it was breathwork. That was that one liberating thing that allowed me to just See it and let it go. Is there any other modalities that you found to be really potent for your specific journey?

EMILY:
Yeah, like I've tried everything because basically that's been my journey the whole way. I'm like, there's something wrong here. Something's not right. I need to try and fix it. So I've literally tried everything. Breathwork, like you, that's been the most powerful for me. However, I had a friend I took on a breathwork a couple of times and she's like, that really didn't do anything for me. And I'm like, are you crazy? Like this stuff's changed my entire life. So everyone's different. And other modalities that have helped me, the first thing that actually helped me was kinesiology. Because at the point that I saw a kinesiologist, I had only ever had that Western medicine treatment where I would have the tablets and I would go and see the counsellors and all of that stuff. And when I actually won a voucher to a kinesiologist, I was like, what the hell was that? How did she know that? And why was I just sobbing uncontrollably when she touched my body in a certain way? So yeah, kinesiology is another one I highly recommend. And then obviously there's NLP, which is more that rewiring, but in terms of somatic therapies, definitely kinesiology. and breathwork are my two go-tos.

JEMAINE:
I really do love that you mentioned the variability with breathwork because I think that's a really vogue modality that people are stepping into now. You see it all over Instagram and all over social media, all of these new breathwork practitioners and retreats that you can do. And one thing that I do find is I find it quite scary is that yes, a lot of these modalities can have really potent healing potential, but by a trained professional, I see a lot of people in this coaching space who are taking on elements like breathwork or ice bath therapy, and maybe a personal trainer has done ice bath therapy and was like, oh, this is great and starts facilitating that. We really underestimate the power of nature, right? Water therapy can be incredibly profound, but also it can liberate a lot of undelt trauma. Same with breathwork, you know, if you're not a trained professional and you're taking people through these breathwork sessions, That can bring up a lot for someone.

You can actually get into this psychedelic experience through breathwork, right? We can release our own DMT from our gut and it can take us on almost like this trip. And if someone is this quote-unquote practitioner who is not adequately trained or trauma-informed, It can really open a can of worms of something really dangerous. You know, I've had a friend who has gone to a breathwork and upon going home that evening, it had brought up a lot of stuff that she did not know was under the surface. And as a result, she was at home by herself and had to navigate everything that was coming up for her. and you know you see this with ice bath therapy that you know it's a big craze that people are doing but that freezing cold temperature for people who have anxiety like yes there are so many therapeutic benefits around that but for people who have anxiety When we get into the cold water, what does the heart rate do immediately? It rapidly picks up, right? And what does that emulate? The same physical symptom of anxiety. And it can trigger somebody into that response if they don't have someone appropriately guiding them through that mind-body connection at the time. One thing you did mention there, Em, was the pharmaceutical side of your journey. So I would love to rewind back, like, let's talk a little bit about your journey in the lead up to your diagnosis with bipolar and how that was managed at the time.

EMILY:
Yeah, so my journey with the pharmaceutical side of these types of medications actually began when I was 14 and I first started experiencing depression. And I went to the GP and my mom took me there because I was depressed all the time. And their solution was, here's some SSRIs, so some antidepressants. So I started taking them from 14 years old. And then what I would find is that that would actually bring on more like of these manic states is what they called it. So they really like, they will suppress for a certain amount of time. Like I do believe that they suppress the trauma for a certain amount of time, but then what will happen is you're back at the same state. So you actually have to up the dose and up the dose because that trauma is going to keep creeping back up until you actually recognize it. And then when I went and got the bipolar diagnosis, the stuff that they put you on, they completely changed who you are as a person. So I was put on quetiapine, which this was the second time, like the first thing they put me on, it was this wafer on my tongue, and it actually disconnected me from all emotion. And it actually made me suicidal the first medication that they trialed me on. And then quetiapine, they trialed me on that. And it balanced me for a little while, but I just kept going back to the way it was. And their solution was up the dose, up the dose. And that's why I was like, something's not right here. It's not working long term.

JEMAINE:
And so, obviously, disclaimer that we are talking personal experience and not from a medical perspective. And it's up to each individual to discern what medication is going to be right and what path of healing is going to be right for them. So you've gotten to have a taste of both sides. And, you know, it's not uncommon. I do see it a lot where some of those medications, yes, they may help you from feeling depressed, but they also stop you from feeling anything. You don't get the highs. or the natural lows, it's nothing. And one thing that really scares me a lot is I see a lot of mothers on this medication. And as we touched on and possibly will touch on further in this conversation is that first seven years of our life where a child who doesn't have the words to articulate what's going on for them is making meaning for the world based on how they feel. And when we have emotionally suppressed parents, where it was like, men don't cry, suck it up. And, you know, my grandparents' generation were on lithium and valium to suppress quote unquote hysteria. And so we've kind of evolved from that archaic view of emotion. yet we're still in this place where there are some trains of thought that think feeling nothing is better than feeling depression and feeling nothing is a way to prevent suicide. And so sounds like what you're saying is you're on a bit of an emotional roller coaster on these medications. What was the catalyst for you to actually make a change and take another path? Yeah.

EMILY:
Thank you. And just before I get to that question, one thing I can say from someone that has been suicidal and actually at the result of these medications, when you lose touch of all emotions, you'll be begging for the pain to come back. Because when I've got to this state of complete dissociation from any emotion, and that's the point in my life that I have been suicidal, you're literally begging for the pain back. So that's what I just wanted to say on that. Um, so in terms of the catalyst that actually made me change, that was when I experienced too much pain. So it resulted when I was in quite a toxic relationship with my kid's dad. And when I had found out that he was cheating on me with multiple women in our bed while I was at work. That's when I pretty much hit rock bottom. And I remember just crying. It's always the shower floor, but I was crying on my shower floor whilst my kids were in bed, almost screaming in pain, being like, this can't be it. I can't keep living this way. And that's when I just went on this journey and I remember I aligned with a coach and at the time she was a coach on narcissistic empath relationships but it was that evolution she reset something in my mind and she also showed me the book The Power of Now which is actually behind me and then that was just that next stepping stone and eventually it led me to Breathwork and that's when like she really got real and I really was able to let go and that's the point that I no longer needed to be medicated.

JEMAINE:
And what do you think happened in that shift? Like, what do you think that, I guess, the personal development, the curiosity, I guess you touched on it earlier in the conversation, the newfound open mind, why do you think that was the thing that made the difference?

EMILY:
Because when you're in pain again and again, you literally get to this point in your life that you're like, I can't keep going on this way. Like something needs to change or I literally can't live. And that was the pain that I was in when I was 30 years old. I just had my 30th birthday. I had two kids and I was literally like, I can't keep replaying these behaviors and choosing these toxic love cycles. and keep living in this pain, like I just can't. And that's the point in people's life where they hit rock bottom and they're like, either I evolve or I die.

JEMAINE:
Yeah, I think it's Les Brown, and I'm probably going to butcher this quote, but he said something along the lines of, when you've hit rock bottom and you're laying on your back, the only place you can look up is up, or something along those lines. And I remember when I first heard that, I was in the very early stages of my personal development, and I was very much the same. I felt like I had hit rock bottom. you getting to that point where it's like enough's enough like there has to be something more and for you to be here today in front of me sharing the more that you found I'm so incredibly grateful and I hope that that in itself just your presence is enough to let people know that there is an ability to change. Now, I would love to actually circle back around because I think especially now that we've touched on an initial underpinning of your journey is that heart development and that theme that runs through your life of love and self-acceptance and relationships. And you've mentioned the codependency, so can you tell me a little bit about that element of your life?

EMILY:
Yeah, and this is something, this is actually a layer I'm still overcoming. So my need for a romantic relationship literally surpassed everything in my life. I believed if I found the one, that it would fill a void within myself. So I literally have been a love addict. And even now, like, I'm actually currently not dating because I'm fully coming into myself and that loneliness and full acceptance of being alone. So I'm only just evolving from this codependency now. It's just like, as soon as someone would enter my life in a relationship, I would completely abandon myself and it all became about their needs. Like I was just all about this person and I no longer had a sense of self.

JEMAINE:
Yeah. It's quite interesting, you know, if we're looking at the biochemistry of what is actually going on as well, there is a dopamine hit that comes with that, that seeking external validation, seeking that external acceptance, especially when we're having a look at the meaning that we give our experience as a child, you know, if we learn through the acute abandonment or the perception of abandonment. Either way, as a child, we are making meaning of the world based on how the world makes us feel. And if we don't learn at that young age to generate those feelings of love and worthiness and acceptance from within, we learn to receive it from the external world, right? So if we learn at that young age, if I behave this way, mum and dad will behave this way. If I am good, I'll get a treat. And then we go to school. If I do this, it means this. And it's really then starting to condition us. And again, this is neuroplasticity.

We get conditioned and hardwired through these certain behaviors at a young age that if I do this, I will get this. And so it does become that element as we get older to relearn that I can do this, but I actually have to find that love and acceptance within myself. And I don't know if this was your experience, but sometimes when there has been the divorce, when you're in time and care with a dad, it's almost like a competition with the parents of who can win Emily's love more. And so again, it's just imprinting like, I can get this and I can get this from the outside world. And, you know, when we have had that abandonment at our root core, we have to learn to love and accept ourself from the very beginning. Because if we can't find that acceptance of ourself, then we are hardwired to seek it from others. I'd actually like to dive into a little bit around this. From the stress and trauma response, we're looking at the fight, flight, freeze are the three common elements that we often talk about. But another element of that is fawn. And so when we are in this environment at a young age, when we're triggered into a stress response, we can either fight for our safety, we can run for our safety. Some people freeze like the deer in headlights, but then there's also fawn where we actually learn It's not safe to speak up, but also I'm too young or I can't physically run or escape from this situation. And so fawn is that element of the trauma response where it is that people please, I need to keep everyone happy. I need to keep that balance to avoid any form of conflict for my own primal safety. Do you feel like that may have been an element in your journey as well?

EMILY:
Yes, definitely. I was a massive people pleaser and fawn is definitely what I relate to when we're looking at those different responses. So I still see myself doing it all the time. Only now I'm a lot more conscious. So I think with my journey as well, when you're codependent, you're willing to accept the first person that comes into your life and shows you any little bit of love. And usually it looks like love bombing. And that's what I have accepted. I would accept it. The first person that shows me any form of love. So now what I'm learning is discernment and understanding my worth and understanding, yes, I've got a huge heart and I've got so much to give and I don't have to give that all to this person to get love. But if I choose to, damn, that person needs to be worthy of that love.

JEMAINE:
One thing that I would really love to dive deep in, because I think this really jumped out at me in your book. You share in your book a lot of elements to your journey, including the rebellious teens, other deeper depths of trauma, and it was really quite visual for me reading your journey. But what I found really beautiful towards the end of it is that you explain that every element of life is created in darkness. And I thought it was really beautiful. And I would really love if you could, I mean, if you are happy to share a little bit of that backstory and just whatever you feel comfortable disclosing, but I would really love to hear at the end of that what the darkness has created for you. Because I see so much beauty in the darkness that has come from your journey. Reading those elements of your book just really, really just brought warmth to my heart.

EMILY:
Yeah, thank you so much. So I used to run from the darkness, like it got so loud to the point that I would have to sleep with the TV on at night because I couldn't sit with my own thoughts. That icky feeling, that darkness, it literally felt to me like there was this demon coming to try and possess me. So I just kept running and running and running and the lessons just got worse and worse and worse. And when I actually decided to look and inquire into that darkness, it wasn't dark at all. What that darkness was, my inner child screaming at me, like, love me, love me, that internal world. So I don't actually see the darkness as something that is evil and scary. I see it as something that just wants to be loved and heard. And what I believe love is, is the acceptance of all parts of ourselves. So all parts of ourselves and the acceptance and love for all other people. And that's the thing, even if someone hurts me, I still hold love for them because I understand that they are responding to the childhood traumas that they've developed and the coping mechanisms that they've developed. So it's in the darkness and the hard situations that we truly thrive and grow. And we need them because life is secular, like we go through cycles and it's in that darkness that we can shine. So I absolutely love the darkness and it's why I choose to be working where I'm working with the kids that need it the most, because I want to be that shining light in people's darkest days.

JEMAINE:
Mm-hmm. I think it's really powerful when we consider, and you've written this in your book, is that even coming into this world, our very first experience is, you know, we're born from the darkness and then we come out into the light. And the very first hormone that the baby brings with it into this world is oxytocin, which is love and connection. The oxytocin rises within the mom so that the mom has that connection, that bond, that love with the child. We are born in this complete state of love and that comes from the darkness. Think about how traumatic the birthing experience is for a poor infant being cocooned in this little warm nourishing environment and then all of a sudden ripped out into this loud and overstimulating world. We see this element displayed a lot in life. I'm always someone looking for like patterns and things that we see throughout life and so I was so happy to see that written in your book as well. So you say that love for you is that internal acceptance as well as love for others. Is there a defining moment where, and I know we're all probably still on this journey, there's always elements where we're learning to love ourself, but is there a defining moment where you thought, oh my gosh, I am in love with who I am. I am so confident and happy with the person who I am. Is there a moment, have you reached that point or is there a moment where that ease just fell into place?

EMILY:
I've reached that point at times, for sure. Like I've definitely been in points where I'm feeling that, oh my gosh, I'm connected to all parts of me. I just fucking love who I am. Sorry, am I loud?

JEMAINE:
Yes, yes, please. All the raw and real.

EMILY:
Um, so I definitely had that in parts, but that's the secular emotion of life is I'll go in that and then I'll come back into the dark. And now I actually had been in like my cave the last few weeks. I've approached a really raw wound for me. And so I've been sitting in this cave and I'm like, oh, this trauma's icky. But the thing is, I know what comes after it. It's this new level of love within yourself. And then you get that reflected to you with everyone else. So now when I go into that cave, I know what's happening. I'm ready to let go of some more shit.

JEMAINE:
There's a devil at every level, babe, as they say. I mean, throughout the challenges and the challenges from the past, and that will inevitably unfold in the future. Have you found that there's a theme? Like, do you feel like there's this universal lesson that is being brought to you again and again that you think, oh, okay, I get it. I get it. I understand now. Or do you find that there are just lots of lessons that have come in the journey?

EMILY:
Yeah, I guess the universal lesson is always to connect back to the moment and back to yourself and to the present and knowing that it is love. That's the universal lesson, sure, but the human self is just like, keeps unraveling more and more of these little babies.

JEMAINE:
Yeah. This is what the depression and anxiety is, right? Pain isn't an inevitable part of life. Suffering is a choice and depression comes about when we're allowing our mind to recycle and relive the stories and take us back to that past, whereas anxiety is that anticipation for the future. It's like this could happen and this could happen and catastrophizing and stacking and it internalizes this feeling of overwhelming and inability to control the current environment. And so what we see a lot, especially in society, is people jumping from past to future, like reminiscing the past and anticipating the future and never truly dropping into this present moment. And in reality, the present moment is the only moment where we can create change, right? So I think that that life lesson that you've come to mull over and learn is that internal presence and it is something that we have to consciously keep coming back to and as you mentioned neuroplasticity, right?

So for those of you who are very well trained in bouncing back and forward from the past to the future, yeah, it's not going to be like, oh, I've listened to this amazing podcast and I'm so ready to be present. It's like, being the observer in your life, right? It's that self-awareness that precedes change and being the observer and thinking, oh, here I go, I'm running back to the past again or I'm already living in the future and just allowing yourself to observe that and then go, okay, in this moment I have a choice and I'm gonna come back to the present moment now. Is there anything that you have found that has allowed you as a tool perhaps to come back to the present moment in those fleeting moments?

EMILY:
Yeah, definitely. And once again, lies in the breath. So doing breathwork activations as opposed to somatic breathwork. So just grounding in my breath. And sometimes I do visualizations that I'm holding onto my breath. And so I have a little breathwork practice that I practice. But then another thing for me that's really therapeutic is water. So I'm constantly having baths, going in the shower, going in the ocean. That instantly grounds me back to myself.

JEMAINE:
I can totally resonate with that, the ocean is my safe space. And it's very feminine, you know, the feminine energy is this essence of flow and the water element very deeply reflects the sacral chakra where there is sometimes I see a little sexual trauma and particular wounds around that, that can allow us to kind of be thrown off balance there and water can bring in a beautiful I guess grounding back into that feminine energy and feeling safe and in flow. And breath is, I mean, if we can consciously follow our breath in this single moment and just feel our belly expand as our diaphragm opens, then in that very moment, we're back in the body, right? We're not like this electrical wire that's like going crazy up in the mind, which is anxiety, right? This cable that's throwing sparks everywhere. We actually get to grab that electricity and ground it back into the ground. and feel that sense of embodiment, which I think is really powerful. Definitely. I think there is just, there's so much to your story that we've definitely bypassed and missed, but I would love to circle back around and dive into with you one day. For our listeners, personal development was a catalyst for you to be able to get yourself off the medications and completely rewrite the narrative for your diagnosis and create a new identity outside of that label. Is there any question that you would like to pose to our listeners for them to reflect on?

EMILY:
So I want people to think about what they really want to do in life, but what really terrifies them. And then I want them to dive into that because that's where your purpose is. That's where your growth is. So that's what I want them to actually reflect on. What do I really want to do in this life, but absolutely terrifies me.

JEMAINE:
As you're saying that, it does make me think back to another element of your book where you were talking about coming out of the darker days and this window of time where you were in the real depths of the darkness and it was only on reflection that you actually realised in those years where consciously at the time you were thinking this has happened and this has happened and this has happened and this has happened But then on the other end of it, that hindsight, you could look back and think, you know what, in that time, I traveled the world, I've done all these different careers, I've done this and this and this. And it's that hindsight where we can actually get that perspective of like, that challenge has brought so much into my life. So much in terms of self-awareness, in terms of strength and resilience, but also in terms of human connection and social skills and emotional intelligence as well. Definitely. I think that's a really potent element of your story. A couple of final questions that I would love to leave you with. Is there a book that you're currently reading? Like what is one book that you could recommend to our audience?

EMILY:
One sec, I'm actually going to edit because I need to do a cheeky plug because she's the most awesome person in the world. Okay, sure.

JEMAINE:
While Emily runs and grabs this book, guys, I really do encourage you to grab a copy of A Broken Society. It is raw, it is unfiltered, it shares a lot about Emily's journey, but there are a lot of really valuable lessons that she has learned herself that she shares with the world that I think is potent. And I am loving that book you're holding up in front. I actually have Tara in the hot seat with me on Monday. Oh my gosh.

EMILY:
She's my like, yeah, me and Tara, like I'm reading this book and I'm actually sending her messages being like, Oh my God, I'm actually living this right now.

JEMAINE:
Oh, this is why I'm so excited to have you ladies on this podcast because your story can resonate like a lot of the time we think we're in the thick of the shit and it's just us that's going through this and no one gets it or understands but it's like when we have these conversations people can it's like when you read a horoscope you can always find something that relates to you because you're always seeing the world through your own bias lens so we're always looking for that validation of our own story and so Tara's journey is another journey that may be similar, but also very different and unique from your own, but there are key elements that allow us to just feel seen and heard through someone else's story as well.

EMILY:
Yeah, definitely. So I'm reading her second book at the moment, Becoming Her, but me and Tara have this strange connection where we actually, we met once in person and I remember seeing her and being like, I want to be like that girl. I actually did that with you too, by the way. Thank you. But then we ended up connecting over social media and I was just finalizing A Broken Society and she was just finalizing her first book, I Don't Have Anxiety. And we literally published them within a couple of weeks of each other. And we represent what my entire business structure is about because we were cheering each other on and like, we're literally promoting each other's books. And that's what it's about. Like, I want her to succeed and she wanted me to succeed. And that's like, where it's at.

JEMAINE:
And I'm so glad that that's where you just ended because, again, I referenced your book, a huge element of the darkness and the light in the darkness is perhaps our life journey is to find a way to light our own fire. And when we do, we become the light for others. And I saw this with the program that you were a beautiful member of when you came through. It is that, you know, a lot of women came into that program and there was a lot of physical expression of the internalized dis-ease, right? Whether it be weight gain or acne or depression or whatever it may be. And when they spent that eight weeks bringing all of their resources into starting to ignite that internal flame, they literally began to glow. And I even saw it within yourself, you know, like glow was permeating from your skin. And I'm sure this is what you could see in Tara and perhaps in myself at the time, because I had found an element of life where I could find that soulful expression.

And this is the thing, we look for things outside of us, for the clean skin and the weight loss and all of the cosmetics and things that'll fix that aesthetic beauty. And the reality is it comes from lighting that flame inside and actually permeating that glow. And this is where I would so love to circle around to is where you're at now because you were in the depths of the dark and you ignited that fire and that fire is now permeating through everything that you do. And I've seen you grow in community and I've seen you expand the importance of community, especially now that we are in the space where everything is all online, especially since COVID and coaching is online, podcasting is online. And where I've seen you grow to is bringing back that sense of community, especially for women. So tell me where you're at now and how you are holding that light, that torch for others to kind of like moss to a flame gravitate to.

EMILY:
I'm so excited you brought that up because basically myself and my best friend Kat about a year ago were like, let's go into business together. And it's been such a wild goose chase because we've gone in all these different directions. So at first we're like, yes, we're going to be holistic wellbeing coaches. And then we did a launch party and we're like, that's where it's at. We want to do events. And we kept going in all these different directions. And at the moment we're doing networking events. But we've finally grounded into what our purpose is and we're going to be launching this real soon. And I'm, I'll actually just say what it is. This is the first time we're saying this publicly. We decided that we want to create a charity or a foundation that actually teaches women going through tough times, these resources that we've learned that cost a lot of money and that some people can't access until they manifest that level of money. So that's the direction we're heading at. And it's shown us why everything's happened exactly as it has, because it's given us all the skills and the connections.

JEMAINE:
I love that. And, you know, we were having a conversation earlier today about how this podcast came about, because it was that very thing, right? Is that self-awareness and emotional intelligence became this thing that Some populations can profit off, while other populations don't even know it exists. And then others, you know, it's like it's only available to those who can afford a coach. And that was where this, you know, I closed doors on my own business a couple of months ago, and I no longer take one-on-one clients or coaching. so that I can bring these conversations to a platform that is accessible for everybody. Because that as we've really touched on in this today's conversation is the root of healing, understanding self, right? And all of these elements that throw us into this disconnect from who we truly are. And I think, you know, having a platform like what you're about to create and birth is powerful because as we touched on at the start of this conversation as well is that a lot of, and I do see how it can somewhat be effective when we have to, again, label something so that we can simplify it. And if we can simplify it, we can better understand it by putting it in a box. And it allows us to kind of generalize it. And when we're dealing with mass amounts of people, generalization seems to be the best approach that people have taken, society has taken so far in addressing the issues that we have. And, you know, you see this with the mental health conversation.

I work, I do weekly fortnightly wellness visits up to mining camps. And the conversation around mental health in that space does have to be generalized. If someone mentioned something that, you know, could be a red flag, it needs, there's a procedure that needs to be followed. And it doesn't matter if that particular procedure is actually going to cause more stress for this person and be a catalyst for even more harm offsite. It's a generalized approach to how we actually manage it. And it's the same in schooling systems. The conversation around mental health is around this. And I'm not going to say outdated because psychology and psychotherapy is definitely a really potent tool in this space. But I think creating awareness of these other modalities that can allow us to actually want to spend time getting to know ourselves, getting to reconnect with the soul that is sitting there, that has been holding our hand through this whole journey, just waiting to be acknowledged. And I think it's really powerful when you can bring a lot of women into that space and start teaching them the various modalities and methods and conversations and self-awareness that can really liberate a lot of that journey for them.

EMILY:
Yeah, definitely. And that's why I choose to stay teaching where I am and why we've decided because we were not really connected to our purpose. It became a little bit about let's get this many followers and that kind of thing. And then we're like, wait, what's our purpose in this all? And we want to help women that are going through what we have already conquered in our life. So that's why we were like, this is the complete direction of where we need to go. We need to be doing this for the people that cannot yet access this. Yes.

JEMAINE:
Yeah. I love it. And so where can people find GM? Like I know that this is a dual partnership that you're doing with your best friend, which is so beautiful. So where can we direct people to if they want to get their hands on your book or learn a little bit about more about what you're about or what you're creating?

EMILY:
Yeah, so on Instagram, that's our main platform. So my personal Instagram is Amelia May Rider. So that's because I have it under an alias because I do diss the education system quite a bit, rightfully so. Sorry, employer. Yeah. And then our Instagram together, which is our events business that will eventually turn into the Kobe Foundation, which will be our charity, is kocreate. So K-O-create, spelt normally on Instagram.

JEMAINE:
And I know that you've got a lot of exciting events in the pipeline, so I'm sure that my audience will see that in the coming weeks, the coming months. But Emily, if we were to wrap up, is there one final message you would like to leave our audience today?

EMILY:
Go for it, whatever it is to you, go for it. Like that's my biggest thing is I want women and just people in general to live their life to the fullest. Don't be scared because in that fear, that's where there's a treasure chest. So that's my last message to them.

JEMAINE:
Go for it. Yeah. And I'd love to just add another element onto that is, you know, we've spoken a little bit about the perceptions and the meaning that we give to the experiences that we have. And that is so unique for us. You know, two people can have the same experience and give it an entirely different meaning. And I think when we look at fear, what is fear to you first, before I go on this tangent, what is fear to you, Emily? Like you say, like, you know, be courageous and dive into the fear. But what is the meaning of fear and your perception of that?

EMILY:
It's that feeling of overwhelm, that feeling of I'm not good enough. It's just a set of core belief systems that are perceived as negative and keep you a bit stuck.

JEMAINE:
And I'm so glad that you said that, that sense of I'm not good enough, because this isn't being right. we have learned that the meaning of fear is that I'm not good enough, right? Like maybe we stood up in a classroom as a child, or maybe we voiced something that was important to us and people have knocked us down, or we've tripped over and people have laughed at us. And so stacked experiences has allowed us to create this meaning of fear that it's a bad thing, that it means I'm not good enough, or I'm not smart enough, or I'm not fast enough, strong enough, or whatever it may be. And when we start to recognize that that is the meaning that we've given fear, but fear can be something totally, failure, sorry, I should have said failure.

I've gotten this big tangent saying fear, but failure, right? And so often we fear because we're scared we're going to fail. And I always say nothing has meaning except for the meaning that we're going to give to things. So if we learn at a young age to fear failure through these elements of, you know, someone laughing at us or someone basically just casting us aside, whatever it may be, and us internalizing that as this failure, of course, we're going to fear it. But if we can see failure and redefine it as a way to grow, an opportunity to try something new, and if I fail, then I've learned something in the process, or I've gained a skill set in the process, or I've met and made connections in the process. If we can start to view failure in that way, in that light, view fear in that light, then it's going to give us that unshakable confidence to just step in and go, you know what? If I fail, then I still win. And that can allow us to just confidently step into the fear with courage and an open mind for all of the elements that it can bring with it.

EMILY:
Definitely. I love that. And when you step into that mindset that you spoke about, that's when you just feel so connected to yourself and source and you know, whatever's meant for you will happen. And if it doesn't happen, you're like, okay, that didn't work. I know something even better is going to happen.

JEMAINE:
There is another path waiting for me. Yes, absolutely. And you know, I've seen that with you and like you touched on the multiple pivots that you and Kate have had in your little journey together have all been. You know, they're not a mistake because through those pivots you have made connections, you have narrowed down to the core of why you want to do what you do. And I think that's really important, asking these potent questions. Why? But why? What's my intention here? Am I just on autopilot going with the flow and doing what the rest of society is doing and stuck in that funnel? Or am I actually doing this intentionally with a core focus and outcome that I'm striving for? And I'm so, so incredibly grateful that you girls have found that because I think it's going to be very potent whenever you create together.

EMILY:
Thank you so much, Jem. Right back at you with this podcast. Thanks, girl.

JEMAINE:
Alrighty, well, Em, let's wrap it up there. It has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today, and I look forward to seeing everything that you create in the future.