#5: How To Find Happiness Outside of Social Drinking with Guy Wills

Today I’m joined by Guy Wills, mental health advocate and alcohol behavioural coach who shares his journey to sobriety, and that pivotal moment when he took a hard look in the mirror and asked that confronting question - What the hell am I doing with my life?

This episode speaks specifically to social alcohol culture. Guy shares on his journey to sobriety, and provides valuable tools and perspectives that have helped him to reclaim his life, health and happines without alcohol. 

Like many who attempt to give up social drinking, Guy shares of the internal challenges such as the social anxiety that alochol often masks, and the questions of - What if people judge me? What will I do with my spare time? What does this mean for my friendships? 

Guy provides plenty of tools and fresh perspectives in this episode that not only helped him to align with more empowering values, and therefore behaviours, around physical and mental health, and deeper connections with those he loves, as well as ways you can set yourself up for success if giving up booze is on your radar. 

What I love about this episode is that Guy reflects on the spectrum of alcohol usage disorder, the stigma of alcoholism and this social ideology of what an "alcoholic" is, which seems to excuses regular drinkers from introspecting on what alcohol is truly doing within their lives. 

Guy's story is relatable and inspiring, offering hope and guidance to those seeking a healthier and happier life without alcohol. If you find value in this episode, don't forget to share the episode with a friend and help us to impact more lives. 

About Guy Wills
Guy is a dedicated trauma-informed, Well-being and Alcohol Behavioural Coach with expertise in the areas of mental health, wellbeing, and addiction. Originally hailing from Manchester, UK, he embarked on a transformative journey that led him to New Zealand and ultimately becoming a passionate advocate for holistic wellness. Guy's mission is to help others who may be struggling with their relationship with alcohol, offering support and guidance to those looking to cut back or quit drinking.

Connect with Guy

Website: https://www.rightmate.co.nz/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rightmatenz

LINKS

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/its.allwellness_podcast/

Website: https://jemainefinlay.com/

Disclaimer: This episode does not speak to the complex nature of alcohol addiction. If you are searching for further support feel free to contact.

Alcohol and Drug helpline :
Au: 1800 250 015
NZ : 0800 787 797

Your Joyful Host - Jemaine Finlay

Women's health naturopath, personal trainer, NLP & behaviour specialist, Heartmath coach, podcaster, speaker, sun-seaker, and world’s most curious human when it comes to consciousness & human behaviour. A bit of a mixed bag! But hey, at least you'll never be bored!

Connect with Jemaine
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/its.allwellness_podcast/
Website: https://jemainefinlay.com/

Transcript

Episode 5. How To Find Happiness Outside of Social Drinking with Guy Wills

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Welcome back to It's All Wellness. My name is Jemaine Finlay and it is my mission to help you unravel the limiting conditioning that keeps you in this pattern of self-doubt, self-sabotage and self-loathe. Each week I'll bring you a person or a message to keep you curious about the power of the human mind and inspired to take action in a life that feels more aligned. Ultimately, helping you reclaim your life, your health and your happiness. It's all wellness. Today I'm joined by Guy Wills, mental health advocate and alcohol behavioural coach who shares his journey to sobriety and the pivotal moment when he took a hard look in the mirror and asked that confronting question, who am I and what the hell am I doing with my life? We talk about Guy's evolution from drinking in the home, drinking for social acceptance, the loss of his mother and the substance abuse that followed in his path. Guy shares his experience with going to AA, and what I find really valuable about this episode is he reflects on the spectrum of alcohol usage disorder, the stigma of alcoholism, and this social ideology of what an alcoholic is, which seems to excuse regular drinkers from introspecting on what alcohol is truly doing within their own lives. Guy shares valuable insights that helped him start creating a more intentional life, with energy and intimacy and soulful connection. I think there is so much value in this episode for all listeners because I do believe that in the Western world and particularly here in Australia, we have this strong alcohol culture. So be sure to let me know once you've listened, share your feedback and make sure you're following along It's All Wellness on all audio platforms as well as Instagram and YouTube. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Welcome to the show.

GUY WILLS:
How are you doing?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Oh, great. And great to have you here. I absolutely love what you're doing. And, you know, I love that you're this relatable bloke who's speaking to the conscious and the unconscious challenges of having a drink. So I really am looking forward to today's conversation, because I think You know, whether people are aware alcohol is a problem within their life or whether they're, you know, subtly kind of starting to question some elements of it or whether they're completely oblivious to there being any challenges around alcohol. I think there is just so much value to what you have to bring to the table. So I'm excited for today's conversation. So, Guy, I'd love to just jump in with a bit of your backstory. I'd love to know a little bit about what your upbringing was like and just the elements that shaped the man who's in front of me today.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, no problem. I'm actually from Manchester in the UK. I came out here four years ago, five years ago, five years ago. From being quite a young lad, it was like alcohol's just everywhere, isn't it? And I just think that was part of my upbringing as well, especially being in England as well. There's a big kind of booze culture there, as there is in Oz and New Zealand. It's all about kind of Just beer. That's what you do socially, kind of thing. Well, my parents were by no way means big alcoholics or anything like that. But they'd have a drink every night. And that was kind of normality. And then on the weekends, so when I got into my early teens, 14 years old, on a Sunday after church, because my mum was a big churchgoer, she'd do like a big three-course Sunday roast and do these like, and I'd be allowed one glass of wine. And my parents did it for more of an educational reason, so that, and it was a bit kind of seen as a bit more classy doing that, do you know what I mean? So it started at a young age, that kind of relationship with booze.

And then later it progressed. I always played rugby as a kid. I was rubbish at soccer, football, whatever you want to call it. I was rubbish at it. My heart went to rugby, which was a bit kind of, nobody really knew what rugby was too much near me. But I played rugby and obviously with rugby later on in my teens and early 20s, there's a big drinking culture there, you can't get past that. But it was something that later on I realised was there to help my other mental things, but I'm sure we can delve into that a little bit later on anyway. And then, yeah, and then that was kind of it, really. Then it exploded. And then in the process of all that, I have created Write Mate, which is on, obviously, my page on Instagram, which journals what I do and my kind of journey with learning about who I am and who I am without alcohol and what actually alcohol does for us and myself and try and help a few people out. It's kind of like my journal I suppose.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Yeah. Beautiful and I love that that's the approach that you've taken to it and I think that's why you know you are so relatable because was this initially ever an intention of you know I'm going to go out there and help people with their alcohol troubles or was this more like I need to just find an avenue for me to process this myself and perhaps I can help people along the way?

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, I think it's kind of a bit of both, to be honest. There was an aspect that I wanted to help other people. I didn't want anybody else to feel the same way I had felt. And at the time when I made that change and I wanted to go sober, I felt very isolated and very alone and I didn't know who I was or what, how I would fit into society and all that kind of stuff. But there was definitely, the initial reason I did it was more for myself and to have, I've never been somebody to write in journals or anything like that, but it was a good way of me just, I've always been creative as well. So it was a good aspect to be creative, but also be able to reflect when I needed to and be like, ah, okay, I feel that that's, during that time I was going through this and I was feeling like that. So yeah.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And I love that you found that as a platform. I find myself, I'm not a big, you know, written journaler, but I find as I start having conversation and it's almost like you hear out loud what you're cycling through your head and it's like you're hearing it for the first time, even though you've been living with it for however long in the dialogue, in the inner dialogue. And it's like you, as you're talking out these processes or, you know, whatever has come to you in that day, it's like, oh, wow, actually. And you start kind of threading these other nuances into the conversation, which I think is really cool as well. And what I really love is that, you know, you're someone who's speaking in the space that's not demonizing alcohol. It's more like, you know, each person's unique and maybe some people want to cut back on alcohol. Maybe some people want to learn how to go complete abstinent from alcohol. What do you find is the most common challenge that people are reaching out to you for? Is it more of the cutting back or the... It's the cutting back.

GUY WILLS:
I think that it's very interesting. People have an infinite fear of getting rid of alcohol completely. So more times than not, most people who approach me and look to do my one-on-one work, they are wanting to cut back. And that's perfectly fine. It's each to their own and everybody's at different levels with it and alcohol means different things to different people and stuff like that. But generally it's to cut back and it's people realizing that it's affecting home life and what tends to happen is when I strip it back with people, it's affecting their values. And that's when people start to feel a bit disjointed and a bit kind of, because they're now drinking and it's affecting what their core beliefs are. And then that's where the struggle kind of comes in with it.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And what did you find was the most significant hit in your journey? Like the moment where you thought, I can't keep living like this anymore.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, so I'd, in the UK, I'll go on a bit more, so on my 20s was, as like most people, that's I'd gone to university or went to like drama school, I'd done and got into a bit of a music culture like you do there, and then that kind of continued through rugby, but then As my drinking and I started drinking like any normal person started out with like a few beers But then it kind of went to the few beers weren't getting me drunk enough quick enough So then I changed it to spirits and then from spirits. I ended up doing shots like we all do now and again and then from that point I got into drugs and because I was exhausted and this is the only way I can work it out. I said this is a personal opinion but that I was so fatigued by drinking that I needed something else to keep me up and keep me awake basically because I was mentally exhausted and my brain was fatigued.

So I got into, I started doing heaps of cocaine and then yeah and then that kind of And that's kind of how it all snowballed. At the time I was in a relationship, it was like anything, we'd been together for nine years, but we were both the same kind of people and it became quite toxic. And we used alcohol for, it became for one emotion was to be happy, but then it went from when we felt sad, when we felt angry, when we felt all the kind of keys on the piano, as I like to say, through the whole spectrum of the emotions and feelings. And we used it for every single one to the end. So to the point where it got... Very messy at the end. We broke up because I'd got married to this person as well. So the marriage failed. I sold the house. And then I was kind of left thinking, right, what should I do?

And I almost went for a big road trip with my dad to America. Or the other option was to come to New Zealand and see some friends that I used to play rugby with. and I came to New Zealand and I came to New Zealand, everything was okay but still I didn't really know who I was but what I did know is that I could drink pretty well and party pretty hard so I did that again in New Zealand and then I met somebody else out here and the same patterns were following me and there was just one particular day After my birthday, I'd acted way out of line. We'd had a big argument. I was very kind of... Yeah, it was just a big argument, basically. And the next day, she'd left, rightly so. And I just was sat there, just thinking to myself, it's now or never. Like, how many times am I going to repeat this? And it was the scariest prospect of my life because I'd created this person around alcohol. So I didn't know who I really was without it. And I thought all those kind of thoughts come into your head. I'll lose my friends. People won't want to hang around with me. I'll be boring. What is there to do? Like, what has there to do apart from drinking and all this kind of stuff? But I knew that if I stayed in the same place, I was going to be deeply, deeply unhappy. So I didn't really have any other option apart from at least trying to find out what was on the other side.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Thanks so much for sharing that, because I think a lot of what you said in that final part about, you know, will I be boring? Will it be socially acceptable? You know, will I be relatable to other people? And I think this is a lot of the dialogue that really keeps people trapped in that social alcohol culture. And so I love that, you know, that was... choose your pain is kind of what you're saying, right? It's like, yeah, cool, the journey to come off alcohol is going to freaking suck. But also, what am I also choosing if I choose to stay drinking?

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, exactly. It's something that I've spoken about before and it's completely about just choosing your heart. Like let's face facts, life isn't easy whatever way you look at it. It's not meant to be easy. We're supposed to be these creatures that kind of grow through life and develop and learn and then hopefully at one point maybe we pass it on to some children if we decide to have them. And I just think it is something that, yeah, it's about choosing your hard. Now you can either have your hard be in the life that you've got, but you know that, you know what happens if you go on that path, you're already living that path. So do you keep that hard and stay unhappy and miserable for however, or... judging your own behavior and character, or do you go to the other hard and try and find out who you are without it? Do you know what I mean?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And you know, that's how the brain is almost hardwired, right? It's like the path of least resistance. Like, I know this sucks, but also I know the outcome of just continue. I know that tomorrow I'm going to feel like shit. I'm going to pick up the pieces and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, it's predictable and I can keep doing that. Whereas stepping into the unknown, you know, what if I lose people? What if I don't figure out who I am? What if I don't like who I am underneath the alcohol? And sometimes it's just like, oh, well, f*#k that. I'm going to stay here. I like this hard, right?

GUY WILLS:
It is completely. It's funny that you say it like that because it's such a... if we ever take that step of looking at our alcohol use or our behavior with it, the immediate thought is, what have we got to lose? What are we going to lose in this situation? But it's very hard at that point. And it's something that I really work on with people is the mindset of what have you got to gain? What can you gain out of that situation? And when you start looking at it from that point of view and seeing all the opportunities that may come up from not doing it, then you start going, Oh shit. All right. Okay. This, this, we might be on it. This might work.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And, you know, this is as my background is a personal trainer and as a naturopath and I've kind of evolved into the mind space and NLP. And in all of these modalities, exactly what you just said, you know, we so focus on what we can't have. If we're starting the diet, it's like, I can't have sugar and I can't have coffee and I can't have alcohol. And it's like, focus on what you can have. And the way our brain works, and this is what we know with neuroscience as well, is that, you know, what you focus on expands. So if you want to make your life hard, focus on all the things that you're quitting and life is going to feel freaking hard. It's going to be like this place of scarcity and lack, whereas it's like, holy crap, I can have deep intimacy with my partner. I can have meaningful connections and friendships with people who are actually, you know, you know, speaking deeper level conversations, not just this superficial chitchat. And so I really do love that you bring that element to what you teach people as well. That's great.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, no, I think it's something that I just think is, The big question, and it's something that I think, this is going a bit deeper, it goes a bit into spiritual stuff, this, but it's that big old added question of who am I? What is the point? And the whole thing about purpose and all that. And I think when I got sober and I was kind of, I felt very laid bare, like, what the f*#k do I do now? Like, what do I do? And you go down that rabbit hole of exactly what you've just said about what I could gain out of this and the person that I know. And it's something that's inside you. When we feel that and we have those little questions going, am I drinking a bit too much? It's something that I don't know what it is, whether it's spiritual, whether we believe it's spiritual, whatever it is, but there's that inner thing in us that knows that we can do better than what we're doing in that situation. So yeah, it's an interesting one. It's a deep one.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Now, there's so much that I want to kind of regress back to and unpack from your story, but while we are here on the topic, what are some of the things that you gained in your life from giving up alcohol?

GUY WILLS:
Oh, right. You ready? How long does this run for?
Have you got enough time?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
We've got time. All the time.

GUY WILLS:
Let me first off by saying this, I completely exceeded expectations with it. So what I thought I would do okay in and life would be is just next level to how I feel. So let's start with relationships. The relationship with my partner has never been as good. I can communicate on a level in which I don't just, we don't just speak to each other, but I can see it from her perspective now, rather than it being me, me, me, me, me, me, me in this attack. or when we don't agree on something, we can talk and we come from more of a level-headed situation, mainly because we're not feeling tired or fatigued due to alcohol and stuff like that. There's other things that come into that. Then there's things like relationships with my family. Initially, when I first come out here, it was all alcohol-based and because of that kind of addictive personality, it was... I always wanted something from my family. I always wanted, have you got any more money?

Because I'd blew all, I used to blow my money on alcohol and then to the point where I couldn't eat, like there was days where I wouldn't eat because I would know that I'm... I'd spent all my money, basically. So it got to the point of rehashing that out. And yeah, it's the hard stuff. That's part of that hard that we were speaking about before. It's not easy. But taking some ownership and being able to apologize, whether they accept it or not, is very empowering. And it makes you feel like, hang on, well, whether they forgive me or not, I've done my best. And this is the version of me that they can take.

Moving on from that, and communication's a big thing I work on anyway as well, but I think physically, I've never probably been healthier, fitter than I have. My sleep's good now. I can do more. It's funny, people always say to me like, oh, do you get more energy when you stop drinking? And it's, you don't get necessarily more energy because you end up filling all that time. You just get more time, if anything. You get like an extra day a week or more, well, definitely more depending on what, if you're like me, definitely more days. So that's one of, that's, and again, that's another thing that you gain out of this. It's not just, not just time, but you get opportunity out of this. And that came to me in abundance once I stopped drinking. I started going, oh, hang on. I can start working on that kind of right mate idea that I wanted to create. Or I can start looking at a different avenue of work that I've wanted to do. And you become more of a productive person in all aspects of that.

Like I was saying, physical as well, like I can now get up early in the morning so I can go to the gym and I read a bit of my book before I go to the gym. So I'm like, I'm just more productive. I'm managing to do the things that I really want to do rather than what my ego wanted to do. And then there's the obvious, the materialistic side of stuff, like you have more money. Does it cost, when you go out every other night or you're buying bottles of wine and beer every night, It's costly and that accumulates. Then you can invest that into a holiday that you've always wanted to go on. Or like for me, myself, I managed to pay for flights to go back to the UK after COVID and I bought myself a motorbike and I did all those things. A motorbike that I'd always wanted all my whole life, which I'd never thought I could have because I spent all my money on booze I could now afford. So to me, there is bits of the little bits, the materialistic bits. It's the things that you get outside of that. I think it's what you do with people around you and how you can interact with people and stuff is more important.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And I personally so relate to that recovery of time in your life. That was a huge catalyst for me to just say, you know, alcohol's just not worth it anymore. For me at the time, I was studying at uni, trying to work two jobs. My partner was fly in, fly out, working away. And I just, like you said so many times through this conversation already, it's exhausting. And when you're drinking and then, you know, that... one night out affects you for a week, if not longer. For me personally, I just felt brain dead. I just couldn't function and keep up to the capacity that my lifestyle required for me. And in the end, I thought, you know what, this just is not worth it. Like, I would rather get to sleep that little bit earlier and rise that little bit earlier and really seize the moment of every day and have the energy and the resiliency to be able to do that. So I'm so grateful that you touched on that time element that you gained back in life as well. So let's take it right back. I know you mentioned that huge social element, which I think is really big here in Australia as well around sport. And from the sounds of what you've shared as well, that that might have been one of the big catalysts to kind of introduce that social acceptance of alcohol in your own personal journey. Tell me a little bit about, I guess, what your perception is on what role rugby played in your drinking.

GUY WILLS:
Well for me, from my own personal experience, for me I just wanted to be accepted in a group. And I think a lot of guys out there want that. And that sometimes comes at the detriment of who we are as a person generally. when it's especially a bunch of blokes there's that testosterone and there's that kind of like manliness of it all and it's like all right yeah yeah right okay and then you get into those kind of especially with rugby drinking is such a huge element of it and and this is where i don't want to demonize alcohol because i had some of the funniest best times with alcohol with these guys who I would still call now and speak to if there was an issue and still have the most, utmost respect for. But there was a huge element where it's not very easy to see when people get lost in it. You're an average of the people you hang around with and everybody was doing the same. And it was good. I think it was just me. I overindulged in it and I abused it. I abused it.

I always say it's a bit like a surfer, like one of these surfers that's so experienced going out into the sea. You've always got to respect the water. And I had to, and you kind of got to do that with booze. You can't take the piss with it and be like, all right, yeah, no, I can keep on going like this forever. You can, but it has massive, for what you want from alcohol, it will take away in different things, I find. But yeah, rugby was a big one, but I think generally most kind of sporting kind of things, you see it in football back in the UK and soccer and stuff. There's that element of it where it's that kind of lads, lads, lads, you know what I mean? And it's great for some things, but also it's... bad for some other aspects. I think well-being is now becoming such a, in the professional scene, becoming more of a thing. But it didn't used to be. I've kind of gone through that transition phase of that from like the 90s all the way through 2000. So I've seen the change in rugby, how it's gone from quite a, well, it's probably a bit misogynistic and a bit of a blokey macho. I hate using toxic masculinity as a term, but that how it would be viewed now in social media. But, and it is getting a lot better, but alcohol for me was, it was my gateway. It was, and I could do it without anybody really catching on how bad it was. I think, I think. They probably were all like, Oh God, look at him. He's having another shot. But I used to, we're the rugby club. I used to have like double vodka Cokes. I'd buy two at the same time and then buy a shot with it as well. So I used to go hard out at the rugby club, but it was all like shits and giggles because that's what you did. And it was a piss up after a game. And so it's, it was, yeah, it's a bit of a double edged sword because I don't want to poo poo the fact of that, but it was my gateway. It was my personal gateway into that realm of AUD and stuff.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Yeah. And you know, I think, and I totally agree with you, like it's each individual's personal responsibility what they do with the alcohol and the culture and the social elements. And there's a huge element of, you know, who am I in that? And especially, you know, looking at sports where young men get introduced to this in their teens, where they're just navigating who they are in this world. And there's a lot of the ego that is driving a lot of the decisions. this social acceptance and fitting in. And so, I mean, this is your experience, but also it's probably not an uncommon experience for a lot of people where it's like, I just want to fit into this environment. And I see it here in Australia, football is a huge element of our Aussie culture and, you know, the boys have mad Mondays and it's just all about, you know, yeah, the boys and the same kind of thing. And it's like, if you're that one bloke that's like, oh, I don't want to drink, but I'm not going to be that guy. So, I'll just go along. But, you know, often there's probably, you know, 20 to 30 other blokes that are like, oh, shit, I don't want to drink. And their partners in there are like, don't go out and drink and all the rest of it. And then they have the intention and then they get into the environment and think, oh, you know, I don't want to be that guy. And then, you know, you just carry on and get carried away, I guess.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, no, definitely. And I think it's, To me that's where we feed our ego and that's where you can be that person and you can be the center of attention and you can have all the friends. I say friends but you're all in it for the same goal and the goal there is to go and get drunk together. It's interesting when you split away from that and you say I don't want that if they want any part of that, because you're kind of messing up how that system should run. Do you know what I mean? A little bit. And it's, yeah, yeah. It is an interesting one.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And I think, you know, I've heard you speak to this in your own content that you put out and I hear it time again, is that often when we want to be the one that walks away from alcohol, we think that the way that other people address us in our decision is a thing based about us. But very often it's like we're making them feel uncomfortable. Maybe it's that we're illuminating troubles that they're struggling with, or maybe it's like they have an expectation of how they want their night to go. And it's like, oh, well, now this is going to be uncomfortable because someone's not drinking. And, you know, perhaps also if they're sober, does that mean there's a lot of stuff that I'm going to do that's not going to go unnoticed now? And I guess all of these elements where it's like, it's not about you making a decision not to drink. about the other person.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, completely. And it was something because I realized once I stopped drinking and started working on myself that I realized that it kind of boiled down to the fact that I was a young lad when I went up into the seniors. I was 17. And then I went into the seniors and it was all grown men. And I didn't know where I kind of fitted in. And because of that judgment of who am I again, that good question, I felt anxious. It made me nervous going out with these grown men who all had proper jobs and had lots of money in my eyes and could go and just pay for it. And I was still working it down the road, getting shit money, trying to fit in into this mold. So what I could do by doing that is the money that I did have, I could drink, get a bit drunk and then not care what these guys thought about me.

And then, obviously, once I stopped drinking, social anxiety was a big thing and I had to work on that. But at the start, I thought me not drinking was this big elephant in the room. But it was such a misconstrued idea of what it was about. It's exactly what you just said. It was people It was ruffling feathers of how people expected their own night to go. then you're like, okay, your brain actually, it's not even down to you, your brain actually goes, warning, warning, what's changing my outcome for the evening and stuff. And that really helped with my anxiety because then I couldn't stop thinking about me and what people will think of me and all that, but more about... And it made it more... I found it more interesting for myself as well to work out why it bothered them more about me not drinking. So yeah, once you realize it's more about other people than it is about you, then you can add to the evening. So now if I go to a party or something sober, I always think to myself, what can I add to this? How can I make people feel more at ease? And stuff like that. And then that take completely goes away from me, me, me, me, me, and goes by everybody else.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Now, there are so many different elements to the drinking and, I guess, alcohol usage disorder, which, you know, previously alcoholism or someone would be termed an alcoholic. We're talking about social drinking, so maybe the binge drinking on a weekend. We're talking about other elements where maybe it is someone who is closet drinking throughout the day. Maybe it is somebody who doesn't drink often but when they do drink it's blackout drunk. So there's all of these different elements as to how people use alcohol and how people are affected by alcohol. What was your experience with alcohol? Would you be one of those stereotypical alcoholics or was it more of a social weekender?

GUY WILLS:
No, I see that's where my thing comes from. I wasn't ever somebody who woke up in the morning and started pouring vodka on the cornflakes. or anything like but I would binge drink and it went from binge drinking on a Saturday to then binge drinking on a Friday and Saturday and then there was things like thirsty Thursday so then now and again we'd go out on a Thursday it wasn't every Thursday but when we did go out on a Thursday we went out on a Thursday and then there would be the occasional Sunday as well where there'll be like a sports game on or UFC or something like that which then almost raw, depending if I've been out on the Friday and Saturday, would roll. So it became like one big feature binge week with a couple of days. It was like the week had spun around. So rather than having a weekend, I just had like a week of drinking. And then like two days where I was like, oh my God, I feel like shit. And then by Wednesday, you start kind of coming around a bit. And then by Thursday, you're like, Well, let's go again, kind of thing.

But that was more progressive later on. It wasn't always like that. I was just a big bins drinker at the weekend. Yeah, and just would lose self-control, foot on the gas kind of drinker, like, OK, let's go. But nothing that I ever found was I was doing anything different for anybody else that I was hanging around with. So yeah, that was kind of my drink. I was never like a drinker for somebody who'd get in from work and open a beer and have a couple of beers a night or anything like that on the days I wasn't drinking, which at the start wasn't very much. It'd be Friday, Saturday. So on Monday to Thursday, I wouldn't drink and it wouldn't bother me. I was never like, oh God, I'm itching for a beer or could do with a beer now. What I was look forward to was going out with my mates and having a fun time with my friends. That was where I felt addicted to that more than the booze, but the booze just absolutely lubricated that kind of environment.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Mm, yeah. And so would you have seen that as a problem, like when everyone in Europe, when it's normal and everyone's doing it and it doesn't seem like this, um, this, I guess, problem, would you have coined yourself an alcoholic or someone who has alcohol usage disorder?

GUY WILLS:
Scientifically, yes. But I think if I was to judge myself by society now, no. I see like if you come to Auckland and you go to probably the Viaduct or probably Ponsonby down the road, I'm sure there'll be a few bars where you'll see the same faces that you'll only see at the weekend. You won't see during the week, but you'll see them at the weekend. And I used to probably drink like that. And I think But by science, yeah. But I'm one of these people as well that hates being defined by a certain label. I really struggled when I went to the AA right near the start of trying to sort myself out.

I struggled because when you introduce yourself, you had to be like, hi, I'm an alcoholic. And I couldn't... I found it hard to say that. I think you generally would anyway, because you're kind of admitting defeat, I call it, and it's almost like the first thing on their list of... and it is, you kind of... hearing yourself say that you're an alcoholic just kind of hits home that, oh shit, I've got a problem with booze. But I think booze is more of a spectrum thing, AUD, and that's why I prefer AUD than alcoholic. Alcoholic kind of, to me, and maybe it's just my opinion, but as soon as you say alcoholic, you have this immediate stereotypical, that's what it is. That's what an alcoholic looks like, whether it's an old man on a park bench or somebody being an absolute lush at home, just being like all over the shop. But to me, AUD just signifies that there's a behavioral problem there. But it's a whole, it's such a varied thing there.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
I totally agree with what you're saying about that whole, you know, I'm God, I'm an alcoholic. Because what we know is that human beings absolutely follow through on who they believe they are. And so if we identify as something, you know, I'm a smoker and I'm trying to quit, rather than, oh no, I don't smoke. They've done studies where they look at the longevity of someone actually being able to quit smoking. And if you offer someone a cigarette who was previously a smoker, And they say, oh, no, I'm trying to quit. They're more likely to relapse and go back to smoking cigarettes than someone who says, oh, no, I don't smoke. And it's that detachment of that identity. So, let's circle back around to that. So, you went to Alcoholics Anonymous when you decided, you know, enough's enough, I need to change. I really love your story because for a lot of people, like you said, when everyone's doing it and it's the norm and it's not outside of the norm to be drinking every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or even every Friday, Saturday. What makes somebody in that environment say, you know what, I'm going to go to Alcoholics Anonymous, even though all of my friends are doing the same thing?

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, I think I've got to a point where I was just, life was going well, but I could see when the night kind of came when I decided, like the day after, I was hungover, I felt like absolute dog shit, Mrs had like left. I was on my own, just contemplating. I just thought, I can't go down this road, because whether it's affecting anybody else's mental health or not, and maybe it was, it could be, it might still be doing. But for me, I just knew that I couldn't keep pretending to be this clown anymore, this drinker, this partier, that label. Do you know what I mean? Because I was paying with my happiness. So after I thought that, and by no way means did I, even at that point did I think, oh, I think I'm an alcoholic. I just knew that my behaviour with alcohol wasn't great and something needed to change. And the only thing that I knew of was the AA. I didn't really know about CBT therapy. And I just thought, I need to surround myself, if I'm going to go and give this a shot, I need to surround myself with people who want exactly the same thing. And that's what happened. And literally, piece things together as well as i only could with my partner and i said to her i said tomorrow and this was on a saturday morning we've been out on friday I said, tomorrow, when the AA opens, I'll get over my hangover today, but tomorrow, I'm going to go to the AA.

And it was a scary prospect, but it was a prospect. It was the hard I was picking. And I was lucky. My partner came with me, and I walked in there. And immediately, as you walk through the door, your head's kind of going, I'm not like these. I'm not one of these people. And as soon as I sat down and people start, they say their prayer at the start and then everybody start, people get picked on to like talk out. And it was scary how quickly I could relate with people that were in there. And I was like, oh. oh yeah i've felt like that oh yeah i've i've had days that day when i can't remember anything and i've thrown up everywhere i've had days when i've done that and you suddenly becomes very very very real and you and you're like And don't get me wrong, there's people in there that is the kind of stereotypical alcoholic that couldn't wake up without having a drink and stuff. But the great and fantastic thing about the AA is that we all just wanted the same thing. We all just wanted to stop drinking. And what you find most is people just wanted to stop hurting other people out of doing it, which is lovely in a way, but more so themselves.

But the thing is with it as well, it was great, but I only did 12 weeks there. I'd felt like I'd done enough. I'd listened to a lot of stories. I'd listened and I'd taken what I needed. And I think that's with anything in life, especially given you don't have to go by what makes one person happy doesn't mean that it'll make you happy. So just, you have to take bits that are helpful for you. Do you know what I mean?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
What I love about this conversation is this is the kind of conversations that can really break that stigma of an alcoholic, of what an alcoholic is. And when we start to kind of have a look at the spectrum, as you mentioned, and, you know, it can potentially open the opportunity for people to question, OK, what is my usage like? Is there a little bit of dysfunction with my level of usage of alcohol? Because I think when there is that stigma of, oh, my God, that defines an alcoholic and I'm not that, so I don't have a problem. I think that's where it really allows people to just kind of continue with these behaviours that intuitively doesn't feel right, but it's also not stereotypically wrong.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, no, I think, and that, do you not think that that's like a societal thing with most things there as well? Like we tend to look at, we either fly this far over here and this far over here and we either say, You don't drink, or you're an alcoholic, or you're thin and you're fat. And everybody in the middle kind of gets lost. And we're like, well, am I drinking too much? Am I drinking too little? Am I too big? Am I too small? Is this mental health? Is it not mental health? And we get so confused with it all. And that's who I'm trying to catch in the middle with alcoholism. behaviour of thinking, if you think of it, to me, like, if you, if that question's coming up, there's already an issue there.

For me, if you're saying, am I, have I got AUD? I think on all kind of, like I said, AUD is a spectrum, whether it's the, like, very minor to huge, but there'll be still elements that each one can pick upon out of the other one, if that makes sense. And I think that's it. I think that's where I want to step into the spaces to clear it up and go, these are the facts. Now you can do with them what you want, whether it's like, nobody's your boss, but don't be blaming the world and pointing the finger. Because remember, if you point the finger, there's three pointing back at you. So don't, don't listen. You have the information now, what you do with that. If you're going to wake up every week and go, Oh, I'm tired every Monday and Tuesday. I don't know why, but you've been out Friday and Saturday. And it's letting people be aware that it isn't just a hangover and breaking the mold of just a hangover being a day where you feel a bit shit and maybe a bit sick and you just get like Powerades and McDonald's and try and feel a little bit better. It's about what it's actually doing after that day of hangover. It's about how it's affecting your sleep, how it's affecting the rest of your body, how it's affecting your gut health. And as soon as you know information like that, then you can start going, ah, OK, right, I can do something about this a little bit more.

There's a little thing that I do, and it's a test for... It's my own personal test for if you think you've got an issue with alcohol and how you can judge it in layman's terms, I think. And I call it the chocolate bar test. And if you were to pick up... For every drink that you have, if you were to swap that with a chocolate bar, and if you look at it like that and you go all right i mean let's say bottle of wine is a family pack of chocolate if if you're having if i was to give you a chocolate bar every half an hour like a drink out when you're having a after about the third or fourth one you get that's too much chocolate like i feel a bit sick now but because our bodies are chocolate doesn't act the same way as alcohol. We don't. And the thing is with alcohol, it switches those parts off in our brain that would go, yep, that's enough chocolate now. It's like, no, have another one. Because then you're on that high of alcohol and stuff. So I think it's something that if you are questioning whether your booze intake is too much or anything like that, The chocolate bar test is a good one because you can be like, okay if I was to say to you Have and you're somebody who says I have two glasses of wine and I don't drink much But I just have two glasses of wine and I if I was to swap that with chocolate bars, you'd go Geez, that's like 10 chocolate bars during the evenings like and then suddenly you go and then it then but then it's easier to acquaint stuff as well Then you can go that's why i'm not losing that weight that i'm really pushing to lose weight on That's why I feel my skin's not looking great at the moment. It makes a bit more sense to me.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Yeah, and I think that's really powerful because, I mean, I see it with a lot of different elements. We know what we should do. We know what's good, quote-unquote good and what's not. We know that junk food's gonna make you gain weight. We know all these little things. It's just we don't do it. And it's like, do you think there's this level of cognitive dissonance? It's like, I know that this is slowly killing me, or it's fueling my poor mental health, or it's catastrophizing my relationship, or whatever it may be. But I'm not really willing to let that in. Because if I let that in, it means I need to take action and do something about it. I'm really not ready for that.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah. Yeah. It's straight unsafe. Yeah, completely. It is. I think it's hard work. It's hard to say that you're wrong to yourself and that you're not treating yourself well, because I think we use all vices, whether it's fast food, alcohol, whatever, as as our comfort and it's our protection. And I do a lot of things at the start, like when I work with people and I really highly focus on ego. The ego to me is something that has been put there to protect us through our whole life. And I kind of use like, it's like being born with like a little pet dog and it's there to protect you. But if you abuse it, it will bite you back. Do you know what I mean? And I think, over time we get to that point where it's the ego's there to protect us but also it it can harm us as well at the same time and to take down those little plates of armour that we've built up against all the things that have hurt us in the past and there's little trauma and traumas that we've been through and things like that, then we get to a point where to then say, do you know what, this armour that I've put up is actually too heavy to hold up anymore. and I'm gonna strip it back, it's a scary prospect because then you feel like you're leaving yourself open to people's opinion about you again. Which is bullshit, by the way. Nobody really gives a shit. You know what I mean?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Everyone's in their own head worrying about what people think about them, not to be worried about you, right?

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, 100%. And I think that's a... but that comes with time learning that. It's very easy for me and yourself, if anybody's listening, to be like, Oh yeah, you've got to be patient with yourself when you make these big changes. This ego that you've put out there, and when I say ego, I don't mean this big extra, like everybody's a huge extrovert. What I mean by that is just that protection layer. And I just think it comes with time and it comes with question with trying to find out who you are again and once you truly know who you are and who you want to be and your values and going after those values in your life then then those layers will naturally come up and you start saying no to more things because you're protecting your values more. And I think that's a big thing that I've come to realize recently is a lot of people, if you were to ask most people what their values are, it'd be a bit like, it's a secondary thought. And I think if people really went after their values and prioritized it, then things like alcohol and those vices, you'd be able to get rid of a bit easier because you're like, I'm doing it for this value or I'm doing it for that value.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
I love that we've circled back around here because this is something that you noted right at the very beginning of the conversation, these elements of values. And I think, you know, we have these inherited values and we also have these conditioned values as well. So like you say, if you ask someone who hasn't spent the time really questioning what it is they value, and it is somebody who is out every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday night drinking or whatever, They might immediately say, you know, value having a drink with the boys, value my time with the boys, you know, but it's like go deeper. Like what is that actually giving you that you're seeking within that or, you know, and so I love that that's a huge element and I think it comes into so many aspects of understanding who we are is just stripping back the conditioning and the things that we've inherited and really questioning like what actually makes me feel good. that I want to walk toward. If someone's coming to you and just saying, look, I listened to your podcast today and I really resonate with being that person in the middle, you know, I didn't think I was an alcoholic, but everything that you said I can totally relate to and I want to address this. What would be the number one thing that maybe was your number one go-to or the first step for them?

GUY WILLS:
I would be saying to people, it's so hard, this, because I treat everybody individually and it's There's things that have happened to people and all that kind of stuff. But I think the big thing is, are you happy with where you're at now and continuing this path? And if it's a straight up no, then you can come back from that. Then it's like, OK, then what does the person who doesn't drink or who wants to cut back look like? once they can get that kind of image into their head of who the person they really are and feel that they are truly is, then there's something to work towards. And then you can look at things like values and goals and bits like that because then you can really give them the image of what they have to gain from cutting back and what they have to gain from giving up if that be the case. If they've got to that realisation of asking the questions, they're obviously not in a position where they're feeling that they're happy with where they're at.

So it's, what's the option, or why? Why do you want to? That I think is the biggest one. It's always, why do you want to? What is it that makes you feel that you need to stop? Because from an outsider looking in, you look like you're having a good life, you're socializing, you're friendly, you're still going to work. So what is, there's a deep, deep thing there. And I always say, don't just ask yourself once, why? It's, you've got to ask yourself a few times, say why, get an answer, why to that, and then get an answer. And then you'll get to some kind of subject matter. Then once you get to that, then you can ask what, and what is, what am I going to do about this? What is this telling me about myself? And what, what, what do I do next?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
That stacking of why and why and digging deeper, that's something that we, a tool that we use in NLP as well. And I think it's really powerful because when we do keep going, oh, you know, I want to be around the boys, but why? Oh, I just want to have a good life, but why? And we keep chunking it up, chunking it up. A lot of the time I've found that a lot of people come back to the real root of it is I just want to be loved. I just want to be loved and accepted. And it's like, we don't get there until we face that uncomfortable of like, especially, I don't know, a woman, so I can't say that I relate, but as a bloke, to be able to just say, you know what, maybe I do have a bit of anxiety, I don't feel comfortable in social situations and I need alcohol, or I do just want to feel loved. Because I've had all this armor on for so long.

GUY WILLS:
That need to be wanted, accepted, to be loved. And I think it's like anything in life. And I used to be a very big, I was a huge chaser of happiness. And I think it's, if you are, if you chase after something, it normally goes away from you. Whereas if you just be it and be My mantra every single day is be the vibe that you want to receive. And if I want love, I have to give love first. And if I want to be needed, I have to make people feel needed and wanted. And then it's so funny that if you do that, how much it comes back to you like heavy, like you're like oh where's this there's too much love now and I think it was one thing after because I lost my mum as well when I was um about 20 when I was 28 and it was that I wanted to make her feel proud and it sat with me for ages it made me feel deeply depressed and then I started trying to chase happiness and what happiness was and the more I tried and what I tended to do and I think we can all do this a little bit as we look at somebody else and how they get their happiness we try and copy it and we try well they're they're they're having a cold shower in the morning and they they they go for an 18k run every evening and they do and That's their happiness. That's what makes them happy. And we try and copy it. And sometimes when we do that, and we copy somebody else, and we don't get the same thing, it's even more defeating. Because it's like, I'm doing all these good things, but I just don't feel happy. It's just not working. And it's because it's not my happiness I'm going after there. I'm not doing the things that I enjoy, what make me feel good. And I think that's something that has to be looked at.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And it's so valid, you know, especially if you've been in that drinking culture from teenage years, you know, maybe some people 14, 15, they start having the cheeky drink and then 18 all of a sudden they're allowed to legally do it. And so when you've been chasing that happiness for so long and then someone then challenges you and says, you know, what do you do for fun? Like, what would your hobby be if you weren't drinking? What would you do with your time? And I think that's really confronting for people, right? It's like, well, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday night, all I've done for the last several years is go out partying, drinking and carrying on. And now you're asking me what I would do for fun if I didn't have that in my life. It's like, well, that's, you know, more than half of my week. So I don't know what I would do with those four days. Where would you suggest someone start when they just literally don't know what they would do if they were to give up that element of their life?

GUY WILLS:
My biggest thing that I always say is, what did you do as a kid? I think you're most innocent, and I think that's who we've protected, when I speak about ego again, that's who we've protected from such a young age, is that kind of inner child, and it goes into all that inner child work and stuff. But I think If you can look at what you did as a kid, like as a kid, I used to love playing sports. I used to love playing games. I used to love climbing trees. And I used to love going and seeing other friends and my neighbors and go knocking on the door and seeing if they're coming out and socializing and all that aspect. And I think if you can really revert it back to that, And find the adult form of that. Obviously, I'm not telling a bunch of people just to go out and start playing on playgrounds and stuff. But what I'm saying is there's fun and games in life in general, whether it's to, if you love swimming, you can get like, as a kid, if you used to go swimming all the time, get out to the ocean, go and have a bit of a swim.

I find for me, especially being in New Zealand, where I'm from in the UK, there's like no local beaches and some of those beaches ain't the best. So to come to a country where I've got fond memories of learning how to swim and swimming and then coming to New Zealand for the first few years, never going to a beach because I was always out on the pier. But then getting myself sober, I was like, I love going to... And now I go swimming in the sea, I feel so nostalgic and feel so comforted and loved by my own environment. So I always say to people, there's times now that I used to love drawing as a kid. Get out and I'm not telling people to become the next Bob Ross. But what I am saying is draw something. If you're a bit of a creatives, go and get creative. Find out what kind of personality you are and lean into it. And by doing that, what tends to happen as well is those people that you're like, what if I lose all my mates?

When you start doing all these fun activities that you used to do as a kid, and you find joy in, and you find that kind of bliss in, you start to find people who like exactly the same. And then all that kind of, oh, what have I lost? You start going, oh, well, now I've gained freedom in being who I am normally with a bunch of people who also like going swimming in the sea or like going for runs or playing football or doing this kind of thing. And also there's an opportunity there to find out, do those things that you've always wanted to try but you've never done because you've been hungover and stuff.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
I love that you drew to that because I think that was another element that I was going to draw to is, you know, the people that say, okay, yep, I'm going to start doing more productive things with my weekend and not turn to the drink. But then it's that realization. It's like, you know, these are all my mates that I then leave behind and will I have an opportunity to connect with them? For myself, personally, I mean, it was years ago now that I made the decision that clubbing and pubs and drinking and whatever wasn't for me. And in that, people who were my closest friends through the hardest seasons of my life, distance grew between us. Because their perception was, Jem, you don't make any time for us. You don't give a shit about us. You don't want to come out with us. And I'm like, hang on a sec. Every Saturday morning, I shoot you a message and say, hey, you came for a walk on the beach. You want to come get a coffee? You want to do yoga? And you say no. So it's not that I don't have time for you. It's just my time isn't aligned with your values and vice versa.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, completely. And I also think with that as well, it's When you don't drink, because this is what people say, and it's drinkers that normally say, it's like, what do you do when you're not, if you don't drink? And it's like, well, and when you go to a social event and it's at a bar or pub, it's quite, it can be quite a boring thing because you're not chasing that high that everybody else is or anything like that. And it's, And people, conversation doesn't go deep enough because everybody starts drinking. So then everybody, everybody's opinion is more important than everybody else's. So then they get louder and they start switching off that part of their brain, which they can't even recognize. And you're just sat there kind of going. But this isn't fun. It's not that I'm boring, but what I'd rather do is tomorrow get up and, like you said, go for a run or a walk or work on that business idea that you've always had or something like that. And that's where the productivity comes in. And I don't think it's The values change. That's all it is. And their value comes from meeting up and getting drunk together. And that's what mine used to be like. But I just don't want to do that anymore. And that's when people say, oh, well, what if I lose my mates? You have to question, are they your mates? Would they still be your mates if you were drinking? And I think then it becomes like, oh, is this, for me, a lot? Well, quite a lot of those friends were just surface level then. If we were all just there to help each other get to that end goal of being drunk or having a bit of a piss up, it was that we were all enablers of each other rather than friends. And the chat was kind of like, some chat was always like, good, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying like every conversation I had when I was drunk was shit. But what I'm saying is that it was it was kind of like almost like how's the weather today almost chat very kind of Not no substance to it I did like if somebody was to tell me now who some of my friends favorite colors were or What what their family is like I probably never met this like know anything about them

JEMAINE FINLAY:
You touched on a lot through your stories like there's this subtle unhappiness that sometimes people are conscious of it, sometimes people are unconscious of it and you know maybe an element to that that you're trying to escape with alcohol is like maybe there's a misalignment between your immediate circle of influence like maybe you don't actually feel aligned to the people who you're hanging around with and that does you touched on spirituality before that does affect the soul and it's like Sometimes you can, a big thing for me was I started to recognize the people who I hung around when I wasn't drinking. I would literally come home and it's like the only way I can describe it is like I've been plugged into the wall like with electricity and I come home and I used to follow my partner around the house and be like, oh my god, blah blah's doing this. this and this and this and I'd just have so much energy and he'd be like, are you on drugs or something? And I would literally just come home on such a high because I had such a soul fulfilling day with my friends. And I think when people can have a taste of that and recognize, like when you've got that polarity to choose between, it's like, okay, I've experienced this now and I've also experienced how good it can be. It's almost like you're like, oh, I don't really want to go back to that because like, I align with these people and I can feel it in every ounce of my body. It feels amazing.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah. No, definitely. And I just, it, you can, like, to me, friends should add to you, not take away. I think any relationship should add to you and take, not take away. And I think it's about that meeting in the middle of that. And I think, obviously, I'm not saying it should all just be take, but I just think there's a very fine line when people start taking without you realising that they're taking part of your energy and you come in and you're depleted and you're just a bit like, oh. But then, like you said, when you have somebody who's adding to your is giving you a bit of stimulus to work with so that you can ask more about, and you want to ask them more questions about the subject that they're speaking about, because it aligns with what you truly want, rather than somebody who's filling that space that has no kind of same, maybe same value or same kind of thing, interest that you've got, but the common denominator is the fact that you both love beer. You know what I mean?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Or you're escaping the nagging missus back home, or you're finishing off a shitty day at work, or you're having a moment where you can just down-regulate to your mates and just offload all your shit, because often that's what it is, right? Alcohol takes the edge off. And it's like, well, hang on, what distress is in your life that you're taking the edge off? Because I don't think a lot of people question that. It's like, oh, financial was putting a bit of pressure, and the job's putting a bit of pressure, and the partnership's putting on a bit of pressure. we don't actually have the awareness to go well hang on let me address these rather than just like numb it out for a night and just go back and deal with it later.

GUY WILLS:
Yeah, no, definitely. There's the irony in that as well, that when we drink as well, not only does after the high you have a big drop in your cortisol levels and so you feel more stressed, hence the reason then you have another drink, but then your baseline when you are sober is coming from a... is lower. So even when you're sober now, you've dropped your baseline stress level. So what... a year ago wouldn't have stressed you because you've continued on that routine and that drinking pattern. A year later, the thing that would never have stressed you is now stressing you out. So then it's even more of a reason to go out and do you know what I mean? It just, it's just snowballs.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Yeah, yeah. God, Guy, I feel like there's so much we can go into in this conversation, and I think where this conversation has really gone is having a look at the social elements of alcoholism, right? Because like you said, it is a spectrum, and there is addiction, and I think addiction is a whole other conversation in itself. Without going there, I think it's just really nice to kind of round off in that we've touched so many things that I think people can relate to. And for me personally, this is why I started this podcast as well, is that I saw this huge pendulum swing with everything in Western culture. It's this or it's that. And the reality is, we're the human beings beneath the behavior. And if it's like, if I'm not all this or all of that, what am I? So, I think there's just so much value in terms of just social culture and acceptance of alcohol from today's conversation. And I would love to know what, outside of the AA, for you personally, like I know this is variable with every individual person and circumstance, but for you personally, like what was the biggest tools that really helped you in your journey?

GUY WILLS:
Reading. And it sounds, I don't know whether it sounds stupid or not, but reading about this and creating an environment where I could help myself. And once I'd embarked on that journey, I wanted to get to the bottom of it and I wanted to delve deeper. So I went to therapy because there was built up issues there as well. So therapy, I always think like therapy is very good, whether it's CBT or just like your general kind of therapist or counsellor. Because if you're going to go to a gym and work out your body, I think it's also good to go to a counsellor or therapist to work out your brain a little bit. So that was a help. But for me, reading was because I came to the realization that I wasn't the first. Lo and behold, I wasn't the first person that had struggled with alcohol. And there was plenty of books out there that it was either somebody speaking about their own journey or it was somebody saying how they questioned who they were or there's always somebody who's been through the same kind of shit and I thought that reading and just creating an environment and when I say an environment because I go on my phone quite a bit and I think it's important to surround yourself on your social media and stuff around people who are either been on that journey or are going through that journey or therapist or people who inspire you rather than just your mates.

That might sound a bit bad but I just think sometimes you need to create your own, you have to create your own culture and I think the biggest tools was reading and reading about my body more and things about health and listening to certain podcasts like Andrea Huberman does a fantastic podcast on alcohol and breaks down the science of it and all that jazz and to me it was a bit kind of like knowing your enemy more, if that makes sense. And I had to get to the bottom of who Alcor was and what this person was that I had been fighting. And I think once you envelop yourself in that a little bit more, then it becomes easier to understand yourself a bit more and you can go, ah, right, that's why I was doing that. That's why I've got a bit of a short temper. That's right. And then it makes more sense. And that's, that is part of the bit where you start building yourself back up again to who you want to be and who you want to align to be.

But yeah, there's tools, but then there's also tools as well. Like just going off that a little bit, sorry. Is this like the little tools that you can do around the house where you can, like, if you want to cut back, Move things about, change those kind of brain patterns of that routine of where the beers go or the wine bottle is. Make sure that you put it in a place that's maybe in the back of the fridge or change your wine glasses around to a different part of the kitchen so that you have to consciously think about the decisions you're making. I also say if you're going shopping, if you're anything like I used to be, I'd go and do my food shop and then I'd go straight to the booze aisle and go and pick my beers or wine or whatever it was. If you're cutting back, do that first and make it a conscious decision to go and pick alcohol-free drinks. that you'll go in there first and you change that viewpoint of going, right, do I need the beers? Do I need to, all right, I do fancy the taste of beer, I'll get an alcoholic free beer. So there's a lot of tools like that as well that might help. But the main tool I would suggest to people is read and hang around with people who want the same as you.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Those two points tie into each other so well. I mean, what I love speaking to a lot is neuroplasticity and teaching people that, you know, we can actually change the hardwiring of our brain. And even though we've done something again and again and again and again, again, choose your hard. It's not going to be, I'm not going to lie and say it's going to be easy. It's going to be hard. but you start carving out new pathways the more you show up to these new practices and it does become second nature and everything that you spoke to from the reading to the rearrangement of the house to the nature of the way in the order that you shop all of this is getting you off autopilot right like you said it's just snapping you out of that automated routine behavior and making you think and it's in that present moment where we're actually conscious and thinking in that present moment that we can actually create change rather than, you know, that hindsight where it's like, oh shit, I'm here again.

So I love that and I love that you even said reading as well because personal development was a huge part of my journey and a catalyst for a lot of the people in my personal circle as well, either living addiction or domestic violence or trauma in their own right and different elements and ways and I think the more that we can grow, grow through other people's stories and experiences and then question that deeper and find what resonates, I think that is really powerful. And one thing that we didn't really touch on today, which I've heard you speak to and I myself know is a huge element for a lot of why we do what we do. the traumas beneath the surface as well, you know, whether it's little t trauma or big T trauma, there are these subtle nuances of, you know, what we're doing today as an adult and how we're showing up is a coping strategy that we've learned. Like you said, the ego put in place very young to keep us safe. And so I think when you do embark in that personal development journey through reading and podcasting and the rest, we do really start to understand self and think, oh my gosh. And the more you understand, the more control you feel you have in that. So I think that's just such a valuable tool that you've just shared with our audience. So thank you. Now, two questions that I always finish my podcast with. I would love to know, do you have an empowering way that you start your day? Do you have a routine that you have?

GUY WILLS:
Yes, that's something that is massively valuable for if you're giving up views, cutting back or anything like that, especially if you start getting your sleep down and that also sorts itself out after a few weeks. But yes, my morning routine consists of so on my alarm in the morning, I've got some affirmations on there. So as soon as my alarm goes, I see them. So I read them to myself. I then go and get a cold shower and then I go and read. And I don't, by the way, I don't do the cold shower because it's good for... I just do it because it's just a challenge. It makes me know that I can do other hard shit during the day a little bit, a bit like everybody else does. Do you know what I mean? And then I... and then I read for a bit like it's nothing too much because I don't have that much time I read about like five six pages of a book um just to give my head a bit of peace of mind and then I am while doing this no no like tv on or anything like that and then I go to the gym and I go to the gym for Depends normally like an hour in 20 minutes. I get to like a class one So it's good because I get to socialize a bit first thing in the morning And then that yeah that that sets me up for the day normally

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And I love this. Everyone that I speak to in the wellness space all have these similar elements where there is an element of movement, there is an element of personal development, there is an element of, you know, spending time with self and silencing the mind. Have you read the book The 5am Club by Robin Sharma?

GUY WILLS:
No, I've not.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
He actually talks around the science of these methods as well, and it actually silences the prefrontal cortex, which is all about inner dialogue. And when we do these elements in our morning routine, it allows us to be a lot kinder to ourselves for the remaining of the day, and also allows us to actually have a lot more sense of control for how our day rolls out as well. And it's just interesting. You're the sixth person who I've spoken to that bring these different elements into their morning, which is really powerful. Now, the second question that I have, you know, we've touched on everyone's journey with alcohol and, you know, all the rest of life is so unique. But if there was one question you could give our audience to just sit and reflect on, one question that could be the difference that makes a difference in their life, what question would you ask?

GUY WILLS:
Good question. Are you living a life of intention? Is that too open-ended? No. I think it's, are you living your life or are you living somebody else's?

JEMAINE FINLAY:
And that speaks so much to what you just shared with the tools that helped you change, right? It's like being intentional with your daily behavior, being intentional with the people that you hang around, being intentional with how you start your day. And the reality is, I mean, I posted on it not long ago, the research shows that by the time we turn 30, 95 to 90% of our life is on autopilot. And it does take conscious effort to come back.

GUY WILLS:
You've just said it as you summed it up perfectly. I should have said that, are you living consciously? That's what it boils down to.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
But that is consciousness, right? Being intentional and not intentionally aligned to somebody else's version. But like you said, it does ask us then to question, what do I value? What do I want for my life? And all these bigger questions. So are you living an intentional life? I think that opens the can of worms for everything that follows that question. So powerful. So Guy, tell us, how can people work with you? What kind of people should be checking you out and coming to find you?

GUY WILLS:
So if you want, the best way to get me is through RightMateNZ. That's the handle on Instagram at the moment. I'm currently having a website and stuff built. But yeah, I've also got a business profile on Google, so you can have a look for RightMate on there. And yeah, just message me and I'm pretty quick to respond. Uh, if you're thinking, if you've got questions about your behavior with booze, hit me up. If there's just kind of like a. I'm not feeling great. I resonate with that kind of whole chasing of happiness. Hit me up because I'll definitely have some answers for you there. Um, but yeah, Instagram at the moment on the DMS, just, just message me on that or off the business profile.

JEMAINE FINLAY:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I'll make sure those links are in the show notes available for people as well. And, you know, I highly recommend... Guy mentioned earlier about auditing your social media and what it is that you're following and welcoming in more empowering content. This man is a man to follow because, I mean, I just love he's in his tradie gear with his hard hat on and he's like, right, mate, and brings up really valuable and relatable, like, you know, are you feeling like this? Well, me too. And this is what I do, you know. And that's where I think the value is in this whole baby that you've created with RightMate. So, thanks for that, Guy.
 
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